If Mort Divine ruled the world

[rms]

There's a difference between high class restaurants and what people eat on their lunch break. Chipotle is almost as fucking hipster as Starbucks now. I would even argue that the restaurants that are 'high class' aren't paying anyone that well outside of the top-tier Chef's and the waitresses are borderline hookers for tips.

*Only the poor reproduce like beasts. Your misunderstating the birth rate problems of other European countries & Japan : They don't like immigrants, we love 'em. A capitalist system will not stand idly by and watch their cheap labor pool just dwindle.

 

[CiG]

*corporatist system

 

[HamburgerBoy]

There's a difference between high class restaurants and what people eat on their lunch break. Chipotle is almost as fucking hipster as Starbucks now. I would even argue that the restaurants that are 'high class' aren't paying anyone that well outside of the top-tier Chef's and the waitresses are borderline hookers for tips.

*Only the poor reproduce like beasts. Your misunderstating the birth rate problems of other European countries & Japan : They don't like immigrants, we love 'em. A capitalist system will not stand idly by and watch their cheap labor pool just dwindle.

Sure, and Chipotle will set up businesses according to what the market can bear. How much do you think the average fast food worker should be paid? If not a dollar value, than what needs do you believe should be satisfied that currently are not?

My thing about Mexicans was wrt the "encouragement" factor; they have Catholicism to justify their behavior, poor whites and blacks do it just because they're fucking stupid, no one is telling them "Yes, yes, don't wear a condom, more cheap labor :rubshandstogetherjewishly:". The Mexicans that come here illegally do so because it's profitable, and businesses/people hire them because they can pay sub-minimum wage. Somehow they manage to get along just fine.

 

[arg]

i have a mexican coworker who knows another mexican with 3 kids and a shitty paying job who will get a huge several thousand dollar check from the government this tax season.

guess what WE PAID for that check.

fuck him, i want his whole family to die

 

[rms]

who is going to provide the semen for the poor women you fuck?

 

[Dak]

It's not a question of more people at this point as it is who is having them. The low IQ population is reproducing and the high IQ population is not. This means that the work force isn't cut out for the jobs in a high tech world. Either the work force or the tech is going to give, and I'd bet on the wetware over the hardware, unless AI takes off. It's not a pretty future.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Nah, the poor uneducated fucks are almost always the ones that get culled. I'm not worried.

 

[Dak]

The smart people are self culling. It's almost as if intelligence past a point is dysgenic.

 

[The Ozzman]

People would just do that their whole lives and never be pushed to do anything else.

That already happens (see: people fighting for a higher minimum wage instead of looking for a better job)

 

[EternalMetal]

I think the trouble with the minimum wage debate is that a lot of people just look at the lowest jobs on the totem pole: the fast food employee, the convenience store cashier, or any other job that a high schooler would be qualified to do. The real problem comes with jobs that are a step up, maybe in skill, difficulty, and/or responsibility.

One specific sector I have in mind is the EMTs and first responders. Rescue squads around the country are having difficulty finding volunteers, and one of the only ways of offsetting this shortage is by hiring people to pick up the slack. Our rescue squad starts people out at $12.50 an hour, and this is a job that requires being up to date with certifications and training. It is also one that involves a lot of responsibility, as you are responsible for the maintenance of people's lives during transport. If minimum wage were to raise to $15 an hour, not only would we have to give everyone who works for the squad a pay increase on our skeleton budget, but they would then be making the same wages as those other low skill, low responsibility jobs. Not only would this hurt the rescue squad in having to pay their employees more, but it would influence their employees to seek easier jobs.

Another area that would be affected is in the landscaping business. Sure, lots of these jobs are filled with illegals, and if they remain they will probably still be satisfied with their current wages. The going rate for part time labor work around here is $15 an hour. It is a higher paying job than a cashier or fast food worker because there is labor involved. The increase in the minimum wage would put pressure here as well, since the legal workers would now have to be paid more to justify the job difficulty gap.

Solid entry-level jobs out of college start in the $15-20 range, and oftentimes stay there if there is minimal movement up the ladder. The same goes for hired hands of labor jobs. The incentive to aspire to these jobs would also be decreased.

It is clear by now that im not an economist, but im just looking at the current state of the job market in terms of pay, and I think it is logical to believe that an immediate doubling of the minimum wage would put a lot of negative pressure on many fields of work. Im am actually in favor of increasing minimum wage, but not in such a sudden and drastic way.

 

[arg]

Increasing the minimum wage will do nothing to improve the economy

if prices of goods and services go up along with it

and if resulting layoffs increase the number of welfare recipients

The change in marginal propensity to consume

(the tendency to spend more money when disposable income increases)

will be negligible to non existent.

 

[rms]

That already happens (see: people fighting for a higher minimum wage instead of looking for a better job)

The problem is that you think minimum wage employees are 18-22 year olds who have drunk or smoked their way out of good employment/college. I actually think the statistic is that these minimum wage companies are hiring older adults because of all the obvious reasons. These adults will likely have kids and or debt which makes it more difficult for one to justify leaving their job or going part time to finish a technical certificate, 2 yr or 4 yr degree.

Your statement also seems to ignore the fact that these minimum wage jobs will always be around and if everyone decides to get 'edumacated' they are going to simply pay more to entice people to work for them. Or just bring in illegals.

I think the trouble with the minimum wage debate is that a lot of people just look at the lowest jobs on the totem pole: the fast food employee, the convenience store cashier, or any other job that a high schooler would be qualified to do. The real problem comes with jobs that are a step up, maybe in skill, difficulty, and/or responsibility.

One specific sector I have in mind is the EMTs and first responders. Rescue squads around the country are having difficulty finding volunteers, and one of the only ways of offsetting this shortage is by hiring people to pick up the slack. Our rescue squad starts people out at $12.50 an hour, and this is a job that requires being up to date with certifications and training. It is also one that involves a lot of responsibility, as you are responsible for the maintenance of people's lives during transport. If minimum wage were to raise to $15 an hour, not only would we have to give everyone who works for the squad a pay increase on our skeleton budget, but they would then be making the same wages as those other low skill, low responsibility jobs. Not only would this hurt the rescue squad in having to pay their employees more, but it would influence their employees to seek easier jobs.

Another area that would be affected is in the landscaping business. Sure, lots of these jobs are filled with illegals, and if they remain they will probably still be satisfied with their current wages. The going rate for part time labor work around here is $15 an hour. It is a higher paying job than a cashier or fast food worker because there is labor involved. The increase in the minimum wage would put pressure here as well, since the legal workers would now have to be paid more to justify the job difficulty gap.

Solid entry-level jobs out of college start in the $15-20 range, and oftentimes stay there if there is minimal movement up the ladder. The same goes for hired hands of labor jobs. The incentive to aspire to these jobs would also be decreased.

It is clear by now that im not an economist, but im just looking at the current state of the job market in terms of pay, and I think it is logical to believe that an immediate doubling of the minimum wage would put a lot of negative pressure on many fields of work. Im am actually in favor of increasing minimum wage, but not in such a sudden and drastic way.

The government thing is already a problem. It's why government workers get legal protection and more financial incentive to join because why would anyone in their right mind join the public sector vs. the private sector?

I would imagine landscaping is a high cash business/off the books kind of thing. And fuck them, landscapers should take more money from the rich corporations and people who pay them because they are lazy or want to be obnoxious in their possession of land.

McDonald's will always be around. Target will always be around. Starbucks. These places need positions filled

 

[Dak]

McDonald's will always be around. Target will always be around. Starbucks. These places need positions filled

Sears and Radioshack will always be around amirite.

Food service may always be around, but it is becoming increasingly automated.

 

[rms]

How is that true at all?

 

[Dak]

How is that true at all?

?

 

[The Ozzman]

The problem is that you think minimum wage employees are 18-22 year olds who have drunk or smoked their way out of good employment/college.

Please point out where I said this.

 

[rms]

Food service may always be around, but it is becoming increasingly automated.

How is the food service industry becoming automated

Please point out where I said this.

Your statement clearly implies that. You're saying "Why don't these people go to school to get a better job?" -- And i'll ask you to answer this

 

[Dak]

How is the food service industry becoming automated

Order taking is the first line. Food production is becoming more streamlined. You can run an entire restaurant in some cases with no more than 3-4 people there even at peak times.

 

[The Ozzman]

Why don't these people go to school to get a better job?"

There are better paying jobs that probably don't require any additional schooling. You're putting words in my mouth.

 

[rms]

Like what