If Mort Divine ruled the world

[CiG]

The left has Hollywood.

 

[Einherjar86]

The left doesn't "have" Hollywood. It just has left-wing actors.

 

[Dak]

Well, the internet merely reflects popular opinion, which is pretty divided.

Agreed.

As far as legitimate news
All things considered, I'd say the access is pretty even for both sides.

Not when most "legitimate news sites" say all others aren't. Half of the news sites I visit aren't deemed legitimate but I don't think any are legitimate. I put them in a dialectic and *IF* I must weight them I weight "illegitimate* heavier because it's less likely to be influenced by power organs because legitimacy has a premium placed on it.

The left doesn't "have" Hollywood. It just has left-wing actors.

So if you say it "just" has left wing actors that means these left wing actors are working for and enacting parts written by right wing directors and writers. Who are these people and why do these left wing actors somehow get jobs and how are they able to so twist Hollywood products to leftwing ideals (yes I know every hollywood production isn't perfectly conforming to Stalinist perfection)?

 

[Einherjar86]

Not when most "legitimate news sites" say all others aren't. Half of the news sites I visit aren't deemed legitimate but I don't think any are legitimate. I put them in a dialectic and *IF* I must weight them I weight "illegitimate* heavier because it's less likely to be influenced by power organs because legitimacy has a premium placed on it.

I was lumping everything from talk radio to CNN under the "legitimate" umbrella. Obviously conservative talk radio laughs at CNN's legitimacy, so the door swings both ways.

So if you say it "just" has left wing actors that means these left wing actors are working for and enacting parts written by right wing directors and writers. Who are these people and why do these left wing actors somehow get jobs and how are they able to so twist Hollywood products to leftwing ideals (yes I know every hollywood production isn't perfectly conforming to Stalinist perfection)?

My "just" was alternative, not exclusive. I think that Hollywood is made of liberals and conservatives, and the majority of films it churns out are moderate, if anything. Tame, watered-down reflections of political controversies.

At its most extreme, it puts out movies like Twelve Years a Slave. On the other hand, it also puts out movies like American Sniper and Lone Survivor.

 

[Dak]

I was lumping everything from talk radio to CNN under the "legitimate" umbrella. Obviously conservative talk radio laughs at CNN's legitimacy, so the door swings both ways.

I was thinking more of blogs or aggregators rather than sites. Republican mouthpieces have communists outnumbered on AM talk radio, and the listenership of 10AM-4PM AM radio compared to the http readership of FOXNEWS probably correlates really nicely, so I don't really find that sort of analysis interesting.

I probably don't read much, seriously, anything "legitimate", which some would include your personal blog(s), although I would include your blog within what I would call serious thinking material, even if I don't find the conclusions legitimate .

My "just" was alternative, not exclusive. I think that Hollywood is made of liberals and conservatives, and the majority of films it churns out are moderate, if anything. Tame, watered-down reflections of political controversies.

At its most extreme, it puts out movies like Twelve Years a Slave. On the other hand, it also puts out movies like American Sniper and Lone Survivor.

I don't think Hollywood has (hardly) any conservatives, because those sorts of people aren't interested in flights of fantasy (yeah, I know, tautology - but I think product also bears evidence). I do think it has nationalists and moneymakerists which create the sort of stupid different fantastical productions like American Sniper.

 

[CiG]

Citing Clint Eastwood works is pretty useless, he's too well established to really be effected by the bias in Hollywood.

 

[Einherjar86]

I probably don't read much, seriously, anything "legitimate", which some would include your personal blog(s), although I would include your blog within what I would call serious thinking material, even if I don't find the conclusions legitimate .

Haha, well... thanks. I don't consider my blogs legitimately newsworthy. They're highly speculative.

I don't think Hollywood has (hardly) any conservatives, because those sorts of people aren't interested in flights of fantasy (yeah, I know, tautology - but I think product also bears evidence). I do think it has nationalists and moneymakerists which create the sort of stupid different fantastical productions like American Sniper.

It has more than you might think, and I would claim that it has historically contributed to the shape of conservativism in this country.

Citing Clint Eastwood works is pretty useless, he's too well established to really be effected by the bias in Hollywood.

That's exactly why it isn't useless, in fact. He's a major conservative voice in Hollywood, and he got there by exploiting a conservative streak in the demand for popular entertainment. You can't just say he doesn't count because he's too popular.

But aside from Eastwood, you have Michael Bay films, Peter Berg films, Paul Greengrass films (to name three directors) all of which draw tons of money and none of which care about being politically correct.

 

[no country for old wainds]

12 YEARS A SLAVE isn't even close to being one of the most liberal hollywood movies. i've been unfortunate enough to see quite a few of the things that were such transparently manipulative propaganda, doing more harm to their own cause than good, that even the award voters steered clear. i've seen some tory movies that were like that too. i would agree that there is a conservative streak in hollywood (and in american film criticism which i follow p extensively) but it's certainly liberal-leaning in the main.

 

[no country for old wainds]

actually it's probably giving hollywood too much credit to talk about a liberal/conservative divide tbh. i don't think most of them have some clearly thought through ideology, they're just typical guilty white people patting each others' backs over token gestures of compassion - a lot of these same people will also connect with conservative movies if they're packaged in a way that gives them an opportunity to feel righteous and paternalistic or w/e.

 

[Einherjar86]

12 YEARS A SLAVE isn't even close to being one of the most liberal hollywood movies. i've been unfortunate enough to see quite a few of the things that were such transparently manipulative propaganda, doing more harm to their own cause than good, that even the award voters steered clear. i've seen some tory movies that were like that too. i would agree that there is a conservative streak in hollywood (and in american film criticism which i follow p extensively) but it's certainly liberal-leaning in the main.

Ha, I probably should have thought harder, but just typed the first thing that came into my head.

Yes, Hollywood - or its performance of itself, at least (talk about meta) - leans to the left. I was trying to resist the claim that it's a bastion of leftist position/propaganda. It produces some of that, surely; but it also has plenty of room for right-leaning films and writers.

 

[CiG]

That's exactly why it isn't useless, in fact. He's a major conservative voice in Hollywood, and he got there by exploiting a conservative streak in the demand for popular entertainment. You can't just say he doesn't count because he's too popular.

But aside from Eastwood, you have Michael Bay films, Peter Berg films, Paul Greengrass films (to name three directors) all of which draw tons of money and none of which care about being politically correct.

He was established well before the bias really took hold, so again, pointless. He was established before the 70's even came along. More credible examples would be recently established people, of which there aren't very many. Vince Vaughn didn't come out as a republican conservative until well after he was established.

It produces some of that, surely; but it also has plenty of room for right-leaning films and writers.

Any examples? Patricia Heaton actually noticed that she lost work right after she became publicly conservative. I don't really see a lot of examples supporting your refusal to accept this bias.

 

[Einherjar86]

He was established well before the bias really took hold, so again, pointless. He was established before the 70's even came along. More credible examples would be recently established people, of which there aren't very many. Vince Vaughn didn't come out as a republican conservative until well after he was established.

No, you're wrong. I'm sorry, refusing to acknowledge Eastwood's influence within Hollywood is asinine. If anything, the fact that he has managed to remain so popular for so long speaks volumes.

Any examples? Patricia Heaton actually noticed that she lost work right after she became publicly conservative. I don't really see a lot of examples supporting your refusal to accept this bias.

I've already listed three other directors, at least - Michael Bay, Peter Berg, and Paul Greengrass.

 

[CiG]

It doesn't speak volumes at all, because the bias mostly involves getting your foot in the door, so to speak, Eastwood built the door, no smug Hollywood leftist can keep him out of his own door.

I guess all those closeted conservatives and republicans in Hollywood are just imagining things.

 

[rms]

No, you're wrong. I'm sorry, refusing to acknowledge Eastwood's influence within Hollywood is asinine. If anything, the fact that he has managed to remain so popular for so long speaks volumes.

Clint is interesting..he is clearly the most prominent (male) conservative in Hollywood but films like the Iwo Jima depict a rather 'progressive' depiction of American war films...then he does Lone Survivor which is quite the opposite.

All money hungry bastards in the end, I say

 

[CiG]

This stuff is all well documented and there are many audio and video recordings of upper tier Hollywood liberals admitting it. As well as admitting that those on the right in Hollywood keep their views hidden due to the bias in Hollywood.

 

[Einherjar86]

It doesn't speak volumes at all, because the bias mostly involves getting your foot in the door, so to speak, Eastwood built the door, no smug Hollywood leftist can keep him out of his own door.

I guess all those closeted conservatives and republicans in Hollywood are just imagining things.

He has a "door" because millions of people pay to see his films. Hollywood doesn't have room for conservative voices? Bullshit.

Clint is interesting..he is clearly the most prominent (male) conservative in Hollywood but films like the Iwo Jima depict a rather 'progressive' depiction of American war films...then he does Lone Survivor which is quite the opposite.

All money hungry bastards in the end, I say

Lone Survivor was Peter Berg, not Eastwood. Do you mean American Sniper?

All of this is completely ignoring television, by the way: 24, Homeland, et al.

This stuff is all well documented and there are many audio and video recordings of upper tier Hollywood liberals admitting it. As well as admitting that those on the right in Hollywood keep their views hidden due to the bias in Hollywood.

They don't though. Bruce Willis, Gary Sinise, Jon Voight... come on man, these guys are all known conservatives. They may not tweet like DiCaprio, but their politics aren't keeping them out of Hollywood by any means.

You're pushing this Hollywood-as-leftist-propaganda thing way too hard.

 

[rms]

the right do it all the time, quite honestly. Hiding it on twitter, hiding it on college campuses, hiding it in hollywood -- yet everyone knows their views

victims all around

 

[rms]

Lone Survivor was Peter Berg, not Eastwood. Do you mean American Sniper?

All of this is completely ignoring television, by the way: 24, Homeland, et a

oops. yep, American Sniper.

All of this is completely ignoring television, by the way: 24, Homeland, et al.

As in these shows are progressive or conservative? Didn't watch 24 but did spend a few seasons on Homeland

 

[Einherjar86]

24 is definitely conservative; Homeland less so. But neither one is very concerned with being politically correct.

 

[rms]

Your opinion of Homeland is because the war vet turns Muslim and is the enemy?