CiG
The Veils of Negative Existence
You're just in denial. I am noticing a trend in the people you're mentioning, they're all post-1980's. Nobody has claimed the bias is 60 years old or anything.
If Mort Divine ruled the world
- Thread starter Zephyrus
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Einherjar86
Active Member
You're just being daft. You're caught out on your claim that "the left has Hollywood," and you refuse to correct it.
CiG
The Veils of Negative Existence
rms
Active Member
Dak
mentat
So we have literal handful of non-vocal actors and a couple of movies and TV shows as evidence? Looks like an exception proving the rule example.
Einherjar86
Active Member
I have not. And if having read that book is a precondition for having this conversation, then I concede.
I never have claimed that Hollywood has no liberals, or that it isn't left-leaning (see my above response to no country).
What I am claiming is that it isn't some immense liberal propaganda machine, and that it doesn't preclude conservative voices or films. These are all over the place if you only look for them. Although, I suppose you also have to want to see them, which neither of you seem to want to do...
Shapiro identifies how many more shows/actors/writers than me? Oh, that's right - not that many. And Dak, I can think of more examples, but it's not my primary concern to placate or convince the two of you. Just to accuse you both of overstating the point.
Dak
mentat
. And Dak, I can think of more examples, but it's not my primary concern to placate or convince the two of you. Just to accuse you both of overstating the point.
I'm not saying there's no examples of conservatism, of course I probably wouldn't count some examples you would either. it does seem as though you think anything that isn't about LGBT rights or something as maybe conservative. That's the only explanation I can think of for including Berg on your list.
Einherjar86
Active Member
I would just assume that leftist films would be shoving PC culture down our throats at every turn. Berg's films definitely don't do that...
To be honest, this is a tiring discussion. You both have a stronger conviction about the "truth" of these things, but for me it's a matter of perspective and interpretation. I see conservative values surface in films ranging from 13 Hours, to Captain America, to 300. I don't think these films are necessarily pushing a conservative agenda, but to say there are no conservative voices in Hollywood, or that they're routinely supressed, simply overlooks the plethora of films that exhibit (unconsciously or otherwise) noticeably right-wing values.
Hollywood isn't a propaganda machine one way or another, it's just a conglomerate of various politically-minded people, some of whom are more vocal than others and many of whom (especially the younger ones) respond to the hip PC culture of modern social media. If there are some liberals who think of Hollywood as an outlet for their cause, then fine. None of this means that Hollywood is in the liberal pocket and subject to liberals' demands.
To be honest, this is a tiring discussion. You both have a stronger conviction about the "truth" of these things, but for me it's a matter of perspective and interpretation. I see conservative values surface in films ranging from 13 Hours, to Captain America, to 300. I don't think these films are necessarily pushing a conservative agenda, but to say there are no conservative voices in Hollywood, or that they're routinely supressed, simply overlooks the plethora of films that exhibit (unconsciously or otherwise) noticeably right-wing values.
Hollywood isn't a propaganda machine one way or another, it's just a conglomerate of various politically-minded people, some of whom are more vocal than others and many of whom (especially the younger ones) respond to the hip PC culture of modern social media. If there are some liberals who think of Hollywood as an outlet for their cause, then fine. None of this means that Hollywood is in the liberal pocket and subject to liberals' demands.
Dak
mentat
I don't think anyone made that claim. The point is that the script writing and acceptance and funding is much more heavily influenced by those of a liberal persuasion. I did a search for "conservatives in hollywood" and got some pretty short lists (all with the same people) when you think about the totality of people in the industry.
I did find this, which may be what you are thinking of when you say "conservative":
http://www.theatlantic.com/entertai...but-not-in-the-way-liberals-often-say/266960/
I'm no longer sure putting the individual on a pedestal is conservative.
Einherjar86
Active Member
Well, CIG said explicitly that "the left has Hollywood" and then cited a book by Ben Shapiro that claims to expose the liberal conspiracy in Hollywood. These strike me as hypoerbolic claims.
My identification of conservative values in Hollywood is multifaceted and doesn't reduce to one thing, but I'm just not interested in providing an in-depth explanation.
My identification of conservative values in Hollywood is multifaceted and doesn't reduce to one thing, but I'm just not interested in providing an in-depth explanation.
CiG
The Veils of Negative Existence
Matt Stone & Trey Parker said they used to specifically go around in Hollywood talking about how much they love George Bush just to horrify people and said the only way to be punk rock in Hollywood was to be a republican.
This is a pretty irrelevant example but I just wanted to use it to point out that I never said the liberal bias is some super old thing, I would only assert that it started in the 1990's. Most of the people claiming they were denied work for their political views are post-1980's and most of the executives that admit there is a hiring bias are talking about the post-1980's period with shows like Friends.
How can you consider the latter hyperbolic if you haven't even read the book?
This is a pretty irrelevant example but I just wanted to use it to point out that I never said the liberal bias is some super old thing, I would only assert that it started in the 1990's. Most of the people claiming they were denied work for their political views are post-1980's and most of the executives that admit there is a hiring bias are talking about the post-1980's period with shows like Friends.
How can you consider the latter hyperbolic if you haven't even read the book?
Dak
mentat
I think conservatism needs to really connect with the word itself. Some random war movie glorifying an incident of liberal warmongering ("spread democracy!") doesn't count in my mind, as an example of something some might count as conservative that I would not.
CiG
The Veils of Negative Existence
Most films I see that could even be described as conservative are done in a way that liberals could still find tasteful, except for American Sniper, liberals hated that one a lot.
Dak
mentat
CiG
The Veils of Negative Existence
Einherjar86
Active Member
I read reviews on conservative websites that described it as uncovering the liberal Hollywood conspiracy.
Like I said, perspective makes a difference.
CiG
The Veils of Negative Existence
Einherjar86
Active Member
rms
Active Member
Dak
mentat
Yeah, I saw the FB ad and the main char says something about being able to buy an assault rifle at a "bowlarama" without ID. Both wrong and funny.
I read a comment that suggested this was probably made expecting a Hillary win and now they still have to release it. Wouldn't surprise me.
I read a comment that suggested this was probably made expecting a Hillary win and now they still have to release it. Wouldn't surprise me.
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