If Mort Divine ruled the world

Which he did in Europe by asking questions about the mind as a non-European. Seems like a unsuccessful enterprise if he were correct.

The point is he was aware of it and applied a reflexive attitude toward his observations. He was completely aware that he was operating from within the European tradition, but that doesn't mean you can't call attention to its limits and its exclusions.

I already suggested that this was possible, it's just often unacknowledged or willfully ignored.

I'm just trying to evenly apply the rules of public criticism of certain words. A "Male Conservative Psychologist" conference might not attract all that much public attention, depending on how it were advertised. However, I can assure you that the odds of one occurring in the current sociopolitical environment are low due to career concerns and the relative paucity of numbers.

I don't doubt that, but I also think there's absolutely no reason to have such a conference. The reason you find the words on a conference flyer for black psychology is because these are relevant contemporary issues, whereas conservative male psychology has been beaten to death.

Because "psychology" is "conservative male psychology." That's the point.

http://www.apa.org/gradpsych/2011/01/cover-men.aspx

I never said there weren't more women in academia.

I couldn't write better satire.

Please don't try.
 
Because "psychology" is "conservative male psychology." That's the point.

At this point I don't think I can agree. Inertia might leave it as "male" psychology for the moment (debatable that that's what it is but I'll allow it), but social science has long been the domain of US liberals/"blank slaters". It is only recently that the evidence has become so overwhelming against it that the view is beginning to shift away. There's a reason Pinker had to write his famous book on the subject (and he is still fairly liberal).

I never said there weren't more women in academia.

I know. My point was that just because the disparity is noted doesn't mean that it's seriously considered to be a problem by organized psychology. In fact, by my quoted portion it is obvious that only total saturation by females is an acceptable telos to some.
 
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At this point I don't think I can agree. Inertia might leave it as "male" psychology for the moment (debatable that that's what it is but I'll allow it), but social science has long been the domain of US liberals/"blank slaters".

I won't keep pushing against this. My beef is with accusations of racism directed at that flyer, which I find to be disingenuous and sensationalist rather than critically acute.

I know. My point was that just because the disparity is noted doesn't mean that it's seriously considered to be a problem by organized psychology. In fact, by my quoted portion it is obvious that only total saturation by females is an acceptable telos to some.

I don't think a "total saturation" is obvious. The previous imbalance has been off-set by a new imbalance. That is probably desirable for some, if not for many, sure. You're teasing out one implication of the data and the response to it, but that doesn't make your observation obvious.
 
My beef is with accusations of racism directed at that flyer, which I find to be disingenuous and sensationalist rather than critically acute.

Well I would be inclined to agree with you. I'm just saying that such a response needs to be applied across the board.


I don't think a "total saturation" is obvious. The previous imbalance has been off-set by a new imbalance. That is probably desirable for some, if not for many, sure. You're teasing out one implication of the data and the response to it, but that doesn't make your observation obvious.

Well if I were quoting some random blog or op-ed sure, but this is right on the APAs website. If current/past control of the APA is over 75% female and this is "things going in the right direction", there's not much else left. The only thing keeping the faculty relatively balanced at the moment is very senior tenured professors. At the current rate of PhDs, it's going to be a 70/30 female/male split at the faculty/workplace level in the next 10-20 years. So far the primary concern I've seen voiced from official mouthpieces is that this may be a problem for combating "toxic masculinity". Because approaching male problems from that perspective certainly isn't a part of the problem.
 
The problem of other minds persists between any two subjects, not just white and black.

My point is that the history of psychological practice with regard to non-whites, as an institution and a discipline, is shaped and determined by histories of colonial and imperial intervention. Obviously psychology today has moved well beyond many of the archaic prejudices of the last century or earlier, but that doesn't mean that the state of the field today is always taking account of how its very existence plays a role in the minds it's attempting to observe (a limited example of this would be the transference of a subject's associations onto his or her doctor; or, more crudely, when patients want to fuck their psychologists).

Any field involving intersubjective observation (psychology, anthropology, sociology, et al) demands some internal acknowledgement of the limitations imposed by the space of observation - that is, the variable constituted by the very act of observing. In the case of psychology, part of its central goal has been to identify and effectively deal with instances of mental imbalance, but it hasn't always been successful in differentiating mental imbalance from social mistreatment (a major point in Foucault's History of Madness), and a significant part of the latter falls along racial demographics.

I'm sure that Dak will say that psychology's role is to provide all its subjects with the best tools possible to overcome their social position, if that is indeed contributing to poor mental health. Unfortunately, this fails to consider just how much our classifications of mental health are dictated not by actual processes in the brain, but by cultural values. When this happens, we tend to overemphasize psychological methods of treatment rather than large-scale approaches.

An example, off the top of my head, would be the Orlando nightclub shooter. As soon as that happened, news pundits and social media took to psychologizing him, pointing out his possibly latent homosexuality and his Islamism. While these may certainly have had some impact on his mental health, we make an implicit association between these character traits and mental instability when we focus solely or primarily on the psychology of the individual - in other words, homosexuality and Islamism become somewhat essentially entwined with poor mental health.

Now, before anyone objects and says they don't make these assumptions, that's fine - I'm not accusing anyone. All I'm saying is that if you read sociological or historical studies, you'll find that emphasis on individual psychology, with little or no regard for the effect that psychology has on its subjects, tends to result in cultural generalizations, many of which are still with us today.

And that's why I don't think there's a huge problem with emphasizing "black psychology" - because it's foregrounding the fact that psychological practice isn't neutral. It has an impact on its subjects and the evaluation of their mental health.
 
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I can't refute any of that (and actually, it all seems correct to me anyway) but I'm more wondering if you're familiar with Dr. Wade Nobles?

I remember some of his views from a black friend I had on Facebook years back and a lot of it was weird woo-woo, African magic, white people aren't humans, Egyptian/Islamic mysticism-esque stuff.

So I'm wondering if this is what you described, black psychologists working to expand the field so that black minds are understood via the specific realities they live and history they're attached to, and just some weird pseudo-scientific racial snake oil salesman stuff.

He actually believes he is a reincarnation of another man named Wade Nobles from 1816 (his great grandfather), for example.
 
I'm not familiar with him, so I can't speak to any of that except to say that I don't defend those views.

We read characteristics or beliefs like that, however, and tend to make assumptions that it precludes the possibility for intellectual thought. If we do raise such possibilities, then we also have to ask whether Christians or Jews who believe in God are qualified to be educators. I personally think that religious individuals can make distinctions between their private beliefs and their public presentation in the classroom.

But that said, what you say about Nobles isn't what I had in mind. The comment that "white people aren't humans" has a long history in black thought; Bigger Thomas makes this comment multiple times in Richard Wright's book Native Son, and Ellison picks up on it in Invisible Man (although to a much more complicated degree, I think). In both novels, however, the perception of white people as inhuman raises larger questions about how we, as human beings, identify with the classification of the human. Much has been written about the relation between black people and humanism, which is an overwhelmingly white intellectual and institutional tradition. So, in other words, when we make general appeals to "the human," are we including black individuals, or are we excluding them? Since the 1960s or so, I would say that blacks have been more sweepingly brought into the category of the human, but that doesn't mean that material consequences still persist today because of their long, long exclusion.

I can't speak to the context in which Dr. Nobles believes that "white people aren't human," but in a lot of black literature it's often broached as a way to interrogate the assumptions packed into the category of the human (in the most critical posthumanist sense, we would have to say that neither blacks nor whites are truly "human," although that raises problems of its own). Invisible Man is probably one of the best novels for exploring the black perspective on this issue.
 
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If we do raise such possibilities, then we also have to ask whether Christians or Jews who believe in God are qualified to be educators.

It depends entirely upon whether they poison the well of education with their faith-based views.

Edit: I do agree with your overall point, that black people being included in the category of human is only a relatively recent thing. That obviously has all sorts of implications in scientific fields.
 
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...ugh! Disgusting.

foaming-elmo.jpg
 
I'm sure that Dak will say that psychology's role is to provide all its subjects with the best tools possible to overcome their social position, if that is indeed contributing to poor mental health. Unfortunately, this fails to consider just how much our classifications of mental health are dictated not by actual processes in the brain, but by cultural values. When this happens, we tend to overemphasize psychological methods of treatment rather than large-scale approaches.

I want to point out that environmental (broadly, to include culture) factors are considered significant in the current etiological models for nearly every mental health problem.

Large scale changes have so many differentiated effects and it's difficult to both do and to estimate the outcome or even measure it afterwards. It is much easier to treat *certain* issues on the individual level.
 
https://psmag.com/we-aren-t-the-world-535ec03f2d45#.nvjo1vev8

I think @Einherjer would agree with a bunch of this, but the implications are that things like immigration are a problem for the very reasons the right is concerned with. It's also a problem for "spreading democracy".

The applications of this new way of looking at the human mind are still in the offing. Henrich suggests that his research about fairness might first be applied to anyone working in international relations or development. People are not “plug and play,” as he puts it, and you cannot expect to drop a Western court system or form of government into another culture and expect it to work as it does back home.

And the reverse is also true. You can't simply drop a person from another culture in and expect them to simply conform. And the more people dropped in from a different culture the less likely conformity will occur. If you visit many places in the Southwest you'll find areas that are almost indistinguishable from Mexico.
 
to the excerpt, I can't tell if he means that the court system will not adapt to the new placement or if he means it will not function at all.
 
https://judithcurry.com/2017/02/04/climate-scientists-versus-climate-data/

The most serious example of a climate scientist not archiving or documenting a critical climate dataset was the study of Tom Karl et al. 2015 (hereafter referred to as the Karl study or K15), purporting to show no ‘hiatus’ in global warming in the 2000s (Federal scientists say there never was any global warming “pause”). The study drew criticism from other climate scientists, who disagreed with K15’s conclusion about the ‘hiatus.’ (Making sense of the early-2000s warming slowdown). The paper also drew the attention of the Chairman of the House Science Committee, Representative Lamar Smith, who questioned the timing of the report, which was issued just prior to the Obama Administration’s Clean Power Plan submission to the Paris Climate Conference in 2015.

But nary a peep from the media.