If Mort Divine ruled the world
- Thread starter Zephyrus
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CiG
Approximately Infinite Universe
I have no problem with the practice (I grew up on hip hop, I get it) but she's telling teachers not to correct students when they do it in a class context because... culture?
I actually knew someone was going to make this point but I decided to make the comment anyway.
I actually knew someone was going to make this point but I decided to make the comment anyway.
CiG
Approximately Infinite Universe
on that he sucks but his wife is a ev-biologist and the last one on Rogan she took over and had a good non-pc discussion for the most part...if I can trust my memory
Have you watched this yet? I've got it queued up in my Youtube watchlist. While I do actually enjoy the Weinstein brothers, I agree that Bret's wife is at least as interesting and engaging as the brothers if not more so.
I think I prefer to listen to women talk in general, easier on the ears or something? Maybe an example of women's supposed advantage over men when it comes to communication or simply my own heterosexual bias? Note sure lmao.
rms
Active Member
CiG
Approximately Infinite Universe
Einherjar86
Active Member
Actually, she's only asking them not to call it "correcting."
I actually knew someone was going to make this point but I decided to make the comment anyway.
Fair enough.
A long response with lots of specifics; but all I really have to say is that I sense a conflation happening here between, as you say, "extreme examples" and "the left" in general.
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CiG
Approximately Infinite Universe
Actually, she's only asking them not to call it "correcting."
She said don't correct them, tell them they're smart for being able to do it lol.
Dak
mentat
Well I'm not saying that many persons who, for the purposes of being a broad as possible, "vote Democrat", have thought through all of these arguments and/or find them difficult/have an opinion, etc. What I'm saying is that I don't see any strong basis for a potential argument coming from a leftward position currently against the "more extreme" positions. There's no ideological underpinning available to support keeping sexual consent ages, at a minimum, where they currently are.
Einherjar86
Active Member
Well, she put "correct" in quotes, and then said to commend them for being able to "code switch." But in order to code switch, they need to know the "correct" way to speak. So, she is telling instructors to correct them, just not to call it "correcting."
She's basically saying, teach your students the "proper" way to speak so they understand that different social groups/circles utilize different idioms, and are able to switch between idioms.
But most "leftward" positions aren't advocating the extreme examples that you noted. Those are the examples that undermine potential arguments, but they're by no means the majority of arguments coming from the left--hence why they're "extreme."
Most leftists would probably make the same argument I made, which is that the image Ozz posted conflates queer sexuality and pedophilia. Queerness isn't about fucking anything you want, it's about the expression of one's personal identification. That may open onto certain attractions and practices, but those practices inevitably extend into the arena of legal consequence. The vast majority of queers don't participate in legally objectionable practices.
In short, that meme presents an extreme situation/possibility as the inevitably logical outcome of LGBTQ rights. That's my objection. Might there be people who identify as queer and who molest children? Of course; but then, we know there are plenty of people who identify as heterosexual who molest children.
That meme would be more historically accurate if it were reversed and presumed to critique "religious rights," in fact (i.e. with the priest on top--pun intended).
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CiG
Approximately Infinite Universe
lol okay. I'm sure you're "correct" in your assessment, I just thought it was funny that she's asking teachers to praise students for being able to say "aight" and "alright" in the same conversation.
rms
Active Member
would love to know if the political left has always been this happy with patronizing or is this recently new
well don't you know, those black folks are so poor and uneducated that they couldn't possibly know the correct way to speak and form english sentences now!
this whole god damn code switching narrative acts as if every white dude is from the Chapelle bit and would have no idea or fluidity to their speech
Einherjar86
Active Member
For what it's worth, the teaching profession is always looking for ways to respectfully and effectively interact with students--especially when those students are in grade school and learning what Western culture has deemed the "proper" way to speak. Telling young students they're wrong is not the most effective means of educating; and technically speaking, it's not even correct. That is, they're not speaking "wrongly"--just differently.
There's nothing inherently pure or effective about "proper" grammar, syntax, etc. It's just the way that educated speech in the West has evolved. It's important for everyone to learn proper speech patterns so that they can participate without being deemed outsiders, not to mention communicate effectively. But communication doesn't demand that one use "isn't" instead of "ain't." At this point it's nothing more than cultural signalling, which is what the instructor is saying.
Before they attend school, many don't. What's so wrong about that? Many white kids also don't, if they grow up in Appalachia. It doesn't mean they're communicating poorly, they're just communicating differently. Part of education is instructing students how to translate between different demographic groups.
rms
Active Member
CiG
Approximately Infinite Universe
God damn western culture and its unreasonable demands of people not to speak like a buffoon.
Einherjar86
Active Member
God damn western culture and its unreasonable demands of people not to speak like a buffoon.
But see, this comment presumes that "proper" speech doesn't sound buffoonish. But it does--all speech sounds buffoonish! It's just fucking sounds! But it just so happens that the evolution of Western speech has prescribed "proper" speech and distinguished it from "buffoonish" speech. Hence why those who speak like "buffoons" automatically identify themselves as outsiders.
The entire point I'm making is that there's no metaphysically "proper" way of speaking.
CiG
Approximately Infinite Universe
Yes I get it, I just don't really agree. As someone who grew up dirt poor with ingrained bad habits due to shitty parenting and had to unlearn many a thing and learn many a new thing in order to have a better chance at success in the workplace, it just grates on me when some white guilt riddled teacher wants to promote "cultural" habits which could have a negative impact on the future success of the students.
Reeks somewhat of a white saviour complex, also the added element of these same people to typically shit on poor white speech, hicks and the American south in general makes me very cynical about their intentions.
Reeks somewhat of a white saviour complex, also the added element of these same people to typically shit on poor white speech, hicks and the American south in general makes me very cynical about their intentions.
Einherjar86
Active Member
Well, I suppose education always comes off a bit savior-esque. At any rate, I just see it as knowledge. If people want it, let 'em come and get it. If they don't want it, good luck to them.
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CiG
Approximately Infinite Universe
Clickbait title aside, I thought it was rather ironic that the interviewer chose an incident wherein a essayist (Pankaj Mishra) reduced Peterson's personal relationship with a Native Canadian man to "romancing the noble savage" in an article to which Peterson responded by calling the author "a racist sonofabitch" and said if he were in the room when he said it "he'd slap him" as a GOTCHA moment to prove the claim that Peterson is brittle and unable to take criticism.
A literal moment of blatant anti-racism is his GOTCHA moment. At this point I'm wondering if Peterson is using all this money he makes to pay off left-wing interviewers and journalists to make him look good in extreme contrast to their own endless idiocy.
Also, "romancing the noble savage" = another fine instance of my new rule of thumb that the left have become so anti-racist that they're actually racist.
A literal moment of blatant anti-racism is his GOTCHA moment. At this point I'm wondering if Peterson is using all this money he makes to pay off left-wing interviewers and journalists to make him look good in extreme contrast to their own endless idiocy.
Also, "romancing the noble savage" = another fine instance of my new rule of thumb that the left have become so anti-racist that they're actually racist.
Dak
mentat
rms
Active Member
https://twitter.com/EricRWeinstein/status/1027215712014688257
if you're following the Jeong thang, Klein really is a dirtbag
if you're following the Jeong thang, Klein really is a dirtbag
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