If Mort Divine ruled the world

[Dak]

And, it means that genetic/molecular foundations alone aren't predictive of behavior, and therefore are insufficient for making any kind of social judgments on what behaviors particular persons might be genetically predisposed for.

EDIT: I'm sorry, not predisposed for, but rather what behaviors particular persons might exhibit. Predisposition doesn't mean exhibition in the first place, and the neurological layer refracts that association even further.

I don't know that it's an accurate characterization to say that the neurological layer "refracts" the association. Rather, it is part of the process of the emergence from basic parts to complex systems. May as well nominate any part of the body as "refractors" of molecular predispositions.

I think the reason for pushback from certain places on this topic is that while there are many possible pitfalls for gene editing etc in unintended mutations, the real concern is that knowledge of associations or even the arguments of associations are going to run afoul of equalist dogma. "New Phrenology!" and all that. I have concerns about gene editing, but that isn't one of them.

 

[Blurry_Dreams]

at first i didn't even notice the years on the dates at the top
if the dates were closer together, it would have just looked like someone who is schizophrenic or Multiple Personality Disorder

 

[Einherjar86]

I don't know that it's an accurate characterization to say that the neurological layer "refracts" the association. Rather, it is part of the process of the emergence from basic parts to complex systems.

...

May as well nominate any part of the body as "refractors" of molecular predispositions.

That's true, we may as well.

I think the reason for pushback from certain places on this topic is that while there are many possible pitfalls for gene editing etc in unintended mutations, the real concern is that knowledge of associations or even the arguments of associations are going to run afoul of equalist dogma. "New Phrenology!" and all that. I have concerns about gene editing, but that isn't one of them.

I think the reason for pushback among scientists is science (although that doesn't necessarily exclude dogma).

 

[Dak]

...

I know why the smiley, but I don't hold emergence as a magic wand that renders the foundations as irrelevant. Garbage in, garbage out still applies.

I think the reason for pushback among scientists is science (although that doesn't necessarily exclude dogma).

Scientists aren't really any less prone to religiousity.

 

[Einherjar86]

I know why the smiley, but I don't hold emergence as a magic wand that renders the foundations as irrelevant.

Irrelevant? I've never said that just because the behaviors of, say, bees give rise to emergent complexity that can't be reduced to a single bee means the bees themselves are irrelevant.

Scientists aren't really any less prone to religiousity.

Hence my parenthetical comment. But if that's the case, then it's true that genetic determinists are victims of their own dogmatic vision. You can't absolve some scientists of dogmatic influence while accusing others. Liberal dogma is neither the only kind out there, nor the overwhelmingly dominant one.

 

[Dak]

Irrelevant? I've never said that just because the behaviors of, say, bees give rise to emergent complexity that can't be reduced to a single bee means the bees themselves are irrelevant.

I don't mean the bees but the bee-ness of bees. And the differences between bee types. Those differences manifest at both individual and hive (emergent) levels.

Hence my parenthetical comment. But if that's the case, then it's true that genetic determinists are victims of their own dogmatic vision. You can't absolve some scientists of dogmatic influence while accusing others. Liberal dogma is neither the only kind out there, nor the overwhelmingly dominant one.

Well hard genetic determinism is a bridge too far. There are various contingent factors, but at the same time there are genetic parameters. Even the the worst of upbringings wasn't going to render the proverbial (or specific) Einstein as intellectually disabled (barring traumatic brain injury), and no amount schooling is going to turn an intellectually disabled person into a proverbial Einstein.

Liberal (or progressive) dogma is indeed not overwhelmingly dominant...outside of the US/Europe. It appears to be an unfortunate cultural mutation, a byproduct of unique environmental selection, which will lead to its own extinction.

 

[rms]

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/articl...-degrasse-tyson-sexual-allegations-four-women

 

[The Ozzman]

Nobody believed the first one because he's black science man

 

[CiG]

I wonder what witty retort or quip he has for this shit.

 

[Einherjar86]

I don't mean the bees but the bee-ness of bees. And the differences between bee types. Those differences manifest at both individual and hive (emergent) levels.

"The Bee-ness of Bees" sounds like the title of an E.O. Wilson book. I guess that would be "The Ant-ness of Ants."

Well hard genetic determinism is a bridge too far. There are various contingent factors, but at the same time there are genetic parameters. Even the the worst of upbringings wasn't going to render the proverbial (or specific) Einstein as intellectually disabled (barring traumatic brain injury), and no amount schooling is going to turn an intellectually disabled person into a proverbial Einstein.

I don't think intellectual disability is what we're talking about, though--or at least not what most people are talking about when they discuss intelligence and genetics.

The irrational leap (which I'm not accusing you of making) is that certain races are intellectually inferior. It might be the case that certain races are more prone (genetically) to intellectual disability (however we define it); but that's not an objectionable statement, and it doesn't mean the same thing as intellectual inferiority. There's a big difference between saying one group of people is more prone to intellectual disability, and one group of people is intellectually inferior.

Liberal (or progressive) dogma is indeed not overwhelmingly dominant...outside of the US/Europe. It appears to be an unfortunate cultural mutation, a byproduct of unique environmental selection, which will lead to its own extinction.

I think liberal/progressive dogma is at least evenly balanced with conservative dogma in this country.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I wonder what witty retort or quip he has for this shit.

Tyson's witty retort regarding Trump's election was that he hoped to "grab Trump by the penis" should they meet. His cleverness is pretty overrated tbh.

 

[CiG]

His cleverness is pretty overrated tbh.

You don't fucking say.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

My favorite black science man tweet

 

[CiG]

I don't even know what to say about that shit.

 

[Dak]

My favorite black science man tweet

View attachment 17504

Yay genocide and colonialism amirite?

 

[rms]

 

[CiG]

I find some of his rants entertaining but Neil fits the fart-huffing intellectual caricature the most of anybody alive.

 

[Dak]

He's obviously not an independent thinker. Lost in Vegas boyz would probably show him up.

 

[Blurry_Dreams]

Tyson's witty retort regarding Trump's election was that he hoped to "grab Trump by the penis" should they meet. His cleverness is pretty overrated tbh.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...LwJeNp8mFHuGGUdgQT1soYvSMRcqaTmIwmeBbu0RNk7FX

 

[Blurry_Dreams]

Can't we just refer to people who currently have a penis as males, and those who currently have a vagina as females?

what about the "fully functional" and "pre-op" transsexuals?
the ones who have gone through throat surgery to have a Minnie Mouse voice/reduced Adam's apple and the "facial feminizing" surgery to have a face that looks like a Barbie doll and implants/fat-transfer to have huge boobs and a huge ass

i'm not calling that person he/him if they look like a girl till they lift up their skirt

seriously
if i'm looking at Sarina Valentina or Eva Cassini face-2-face, i'm not referring to that person as "him" or "he"

also
the ones planning on having [expensive-as-hell] gender-reassignment-surgery should be called and treated like their new gender long before they actually go through the expensive surgery