If Mort Divine ruled the world

[Einherjar86]

As there are no mentions of a partner, more specifically the difficulties of being a single parent, regardless of sex or career field. I don't know what the Brazilian data suggests, but in the US persons with post secondary and graduate degrees are much less likely to be single parents, and this seems to be partially driven by white/asian representation in, as whites and asians are more likely to have married couple households. Again, based on the data from rms' article, men and women drop out of STEM fields into other fields at approximately the same rate, so burnout due to factors in the fields themselves don't seem sex specific. The difference in dropping to part-time status, or dropping out of the workforce suggests family structure and individual factors, rather than STEM structure issues - which is the opposite of the narrative Dr. Aruajo and others want to advance.

Virginia Valian, a psychologist at the City University of New York, says: “The results showing that fathers also leave STEM reinforces the hypothesis that the problem is a structural one, in which dedicated professionals are not expected to have a personal life, and, indeed, are punished for so doing.”

 

[Dak]

Key phrase "dedicated professionals." Dedicated professionals exist both across academia and outside of academia. This is a problem of dedication (individual factor) and difficult professions, of which STEM fields comprise a few, but not the only. Difficult professions exist because there are difficult problems, which do not take weekends or nights off. Incidentally, raising a human is a difficult problem (although not necessarily in the ways popularly considered). It's a matter of what importance you attach to different problems and what resources are available to address these problems. Some women and men, in light of problem importance and resources, sometimes make decisions that take them out of STEM and other difficult fields. Feminist complaints about this just highlights another way it shows itself to be an antihuman "philosophy."

 

[Einherjar86]

First, let's revisit your accusation. You said that the article I posted was mostly irrelevant because it was presenting "the opposite narrative" than that being presented in the article rms linked--i.e. my article was promoting structural issues in STEM, while the others were presenting something like what you're calling "individual factors."

I pointed to where the link rms posted specifies that the results support the hypothesis that structural issues in STEM are to blame (at least partially). The study also specified "dedicated professionals." Academics are dedicated professionals. The article I linked is talking about academics.

Maybe you can see why I'm confused about your accusation.

 

[Dak]

First, let's revisit your accusation. You said that the article I posted was mostly irrelevant because it was presenting "the opposite narrative" than that being presented in the article rms linked--i.e. my article was promoting structural issues in STEM, while the others were presenting something like what you're calling "individual factors."

I pointed to where the link rms posted specifies that the results support the hypothesis that structural issues in STEM are to blame (at least partially). The study also specified "dedicated professionals." Academics are dedicated professionals. The article I linked is talking about academics.

Maybe you can see why I'm confused about your accusation.

The contention is that these "structural issues" identified in the article you linked were, as I interpret it, because STEM fields (in Brazil even, not the US) have specific problem presented by their "maleness" and by lack of space for "personal life". The first claim is simply feelz based, and the latter is a nearly intractable problem in multiple career fields, not just STEM fields, so why single them out (and then implicitly or explicitly blame males)? Furthermore, again, it's Brazil and not the US.

 

[Einherjar86]

The contention is that these "structural issues" identified in the article you linked were, as I interpret it, because STEM fields (in Brazil even, not the US) have specific problem presented by their "maleness" and by lack of space for "personal life". The first claim is simply feelz based, and the latter is a nearly intractable problem in multiple career fields, not just STEM fields, so why single them out (and then implicitly or explicitly blame males)? Furthermore, again, it's Brazil and not the US.

The structural issues are the same as the ones in rms's link: i.e. that STEM fields reward familial sacrifice and punish those who have personal lives (hence the discussion of parenthood). That the demographics happen to skew male isn't the structural issue; it's the effect of a structural issue.

The Brazilian mathematician isn't saying that maleness is a structural problem; she's simply saying that mathematics is male-dominated and it's nice for there to be communities of women in the field. You imposed your reading as soon as you claimed that reversing the situation would lead to "riots in the streets."

 

[Dak]

The structural issues are the same as the ones in rms's link: i.e. that STEM fields reward familial sacrifice and punish those who have personal lives (hence the discussion of parenthood). That the demographics happen to skew male isn't the structural issue; it's the effect of a structural issue.

Yes, difficult problems require extreme dedication to reach solutions faster. This isn't a "STEM" issue anymoreso than it is an issue for other academia, politics, law, tech, etc. It's not a "punishment". Using the term "punishment" indicates idealogical imposition. The demographics skew male because of general male/female tendencies and the biological differences and relative/related efficiencies between males and females in childcare provision.

The Brazilian mathematician isn't saying that maleness is a structural problem; she's simply saying that mathematics is male-dominated and it's nice for there to be communities of women in the field. You imposed your reading as soon as you claimed that reversing the situation would lead to "riots in the streets."

The riots in the streets comment was 3/4 tongue in cheek, and a comment on the broader "conversation", not a comment on the article itself. She is saying that the maleness of mathematics is a structural problem of STEM though.

 

[Einherjar86]

Yes, difficult problems require extreme dedication to reach solutions faster. This isn't a "STEM" issue anymoreso than it is an issue for other academia, politics, law, tech, etc. It's not a "punishment". Using the term "punishment" indicates idealogical imposition. The demographics skew male because of general male/female tendencies and the biological differences and relative/related efficiencies between males and females in childcare provision.

There's no proof it's due to biological differences. You're making an inference based on suggestibility.

I admit I used "reward" and "punish" in a rhetorical fashion.

The riots in the streets comment was 3/4 tongue in cheek, and a comment on the broader "conversation", not a comment on the article itself. She is saying that the maleness of mathematics is a structural problem of STEM though.

No, she isn't. Point out exactly where she says that the male-dominated demographics of STEM is the structural problem. She's suggesting that it's an effect of a structural problem.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Can't find a better thread for it: picked my mom up from the airport, and the first thing she told me is that her brother had genetic testing done and confirmed he was actually approximately 1/16th Jewish, which means I'm 1/32nd Jewish, and far more Jewish than Elizabeth Warren is Native American. So fucking happy right now that I can re-embrace the Jewish identity I had abandoned in my adolescence. Can feel my verbal IQ rising by the minute.

 

[CiG]

Can't find a better thread for it: picked my mom up from the airport, and the first thing she told me is that her brother had genetic testing done and confirmed he was actually approximately 1/16th Jewish, which means I'm 1/32nd Jewish, and far more Jewish than Elizabeth Warren is Native American. So fucking happy right now that I can re-embrace the Jewish identity I had abandoned in my adolescence. Can feel my verbal IQ rising by the minute.

 

[The Ozzman]

Can't find a better thread for it: picked my mom up from the airport, and the first thing she told me is that her brother had genetic testing done and confirmed he was actually approximately 1/16th Jewish, which means I'm 1/32nd Jewish, and far more Jewish than Elizabeth Warren is Native American. So fucking happy right now that I can re-embrace the Jewish identity I had abandoned in my adolescence. Can feel my verbal IQ rising by the minute.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

View attachment 18990

Thank you my fellow person of color.

 

[The Ozzman]

Thank you my fellow person of color.

I thought Jews were white?

Wait until TB finds out. I can't wait for the memes.

 

[CiG]

Thank you my fellow person of color.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

He's been calling me a Jew ever since he saw my nose (which ironically came from my dad, whose own brother had DNA testing done and found 0% Jewish background despite their mother imagining it out of some kind of Zionist hope).

 

[CiG]

Aryan ubermensch don't require drugs, just willpower.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Hitler was hardly the spitting image of an Aryan ubermensch. Not to mention that he was a literal meth addict.

 

[CiG]

Hitler was hardly the spitting image of an Aryan ubermensch.

A frumpy brunette midget? Naww can't be.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Me rn:

 

[CiG]

Dressing up as a Nazi for Purim?

 

[The Ozzman]

Not to mention that he was a literal meth addict.

Sauce?