IN FLAMES new album being released on 1st March, 2019
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Jester Slave
Narcissist
@DE4life So you are not taking things to the extreme, when you conclude from two sentences that a lyric is childish, because it has the words sleep, vengeance and ghost in it? The bias here can be truly disgusting. Sure, a song like Save Me is absolutely childish lyrically, no argument there. But man, you have to be fucking reaching to think only children use the word ghost, lol. And you actually believe in your own stupidity, because that's how blindly you want to hate.
Also, when the guy writes a song to his son, that's shit too, lol. I guess we were all writing lyrics to our imaginary children back then!
You know, even adults would resonate better with gloomy, melancholic stuff which they relieve once in a while - or often, if they are unfortunate, depressed -, than with Moonshields. We are not as complex as you'd want to think, and it is true for everyone, including you.
Also, when the guy writes a song to his son, that's shit too, lol. I guess we were all writing lyrics to our imaginary children back then!
How so? Siren Charms has many symbolic lyrics which can be interpreted in any way, and the whole thematic of the record is actually among the more interesting IF has ever done. Could have been executed better, as I feel like a few songs were only so-so, but it really achieved that melancholic feeling it aimed for.
You know, even adults would resonate better with gloomy, melancholic stuff which they relieve once in a while - or often, if they are unfortunate, depressed -, than with Moonshields. We are not as complex as you'd want to think, and it is true for everyone, including you.
It is of no relevance to whom he wrote the lyrics. Only the quality of the lyrics.
What do you mean? I'm very complex.
Adults can resonate with gloomy melancholic lyrics written by an adult for adults.
Jester Slave
Narcissist
There is hard to top maturity than doing stuff with your kids, as you have to be a parent first to begin with - spare me the teen pregnancy arguments for now.
Are you though? You really think you are not a slave of your own mind, which can be stimulated by cheap tricks at ease? You can be a genius, but still drool over things your brain finds pretty or fascinating. You don't even need to understand the lyrics; if you are in the mood, then the right tunes with a fitting mumbo-jumbo can lull you.
And it's true for every media we consume. Even the biggest movie or musical hits are often as simple as it gets, they "just" hit the spot. I'm not saying there are no exceptions, as of course there are. But it's utterly pointless to hang up on such details. Shitty lyrics (once again, Save Me) should be called out, but you should realise where common sense ends, and where you start sucking your own penis. A hint: if you think words like vengeance and ghost are only in middle-schoolers dictionary, you are likely reached the latter stage, and need to breathe some fresh air.
First, he was not doing things with his kids. He wrote a song for his son. And it's, and I wonder why I need to say this again, quality what matters when judging the song. Second, the things that you do with your kids are anything but mature.
No, I'm not. Just kidding.
I am my mind. The body is just a vessel.
I wish.
It's better to understand them. I agree with the second part. If the music was good or moving and the vocals had some actual quality on them I wouldn't be giving a fuck about the lyrics. Yes, I would sill be laughing but with some sense of approval.
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Jester Slave
Narcissist
The act of parenting is mature. Even if you are just coloring a book with them, or making silly noises, that's still part of being a parent, which is inherently mature.
Anders writes for pretentious high-school/college students who have no real knowledge of the world beyond what they've read and been taught, but will tell everybody within earshot how things work and why they are right and you are wrong. To people with genuine experience of life it's mildly annoying but mostly amusing. Arguing with them is pointless however as they will only realise how dense they sound about ten years later - until then you might as well go and talk to a brick wall.
With that said, does it surprise me that Anders' lyrics resonate with Slave? No. Does it surprise me that the likes of myself, A88, Eochaid and galvanized find the lyrics quite juvenile? Also no. For a certain audience Anders' lyrics will seem sooooo deep and amazing, for most others it's like being forced to read stuff written by that guy in your writing class who thought he was incredibly mature and smart, but in reality lacked any common sense and couldn't view anything from outside of their own narrow perspective.
What's frustrating for me is that I know Anders is capable of better. Obviously in the past, but even more recently with stuff like Dead End, Vacuum, Sounds of a Playground Fading, etc. These childish lyrics are not his limit as a lyricist, if anything they're way at the bottom of the scale in terms of what he's actually capable of. Instead of dumbing himself down for his supposed audience of kids, maybe he should try to lift them up with genuinely thoughtful and insightful words, rather than the same old boring, tired cliches and tropes which he's already done to death.
With that said, does it surprise me that Anders' lyrics resonate with Slave? No. Does it surprise me that the likes of myself, A88, Eochaid and galvanized find the lyrics quite juvenile? Also no. For a certain audience Anders' lyrics will seem sooooo deep and amazing, for most others it's like being forced to read stuff written by that guy in your writing class who thought he was incredibly mature and smart, but in reality lacked any common sense and couldn't view anything from outside of their own narrow perspective.
What's frustrating for me is that I know Anders is capable of better. Obviously in the past, but even more recently with stuff like Dead End, Vacuum, Sounds of a Playground Fading, etc. These childish lyrics are not his limit as a lyricist, if anything they're way at the bottom of the scale in terms of what he's actually capable of. Instead of dumbing himself down for his supposed audience of kids, maybe he should try to lift them up with genuinely thoughtful and insightful words, rather than the same old boring, tired cliches and tropes which he's already done to death.
It's an obligation. No matter if you want to do it or not the little filthy bugs won't stop until they steal all of your attention.
Maybe I'm just getting too old for this shit, but I just can't take his lyrics seriously anymore. It just so cringy and pathetic.
Like a caricature of sad&angry US teen you see in bad movies, but "sung" by a grown man with beard and funny glasses.
With older stuff you could't at least pretend that there were some "deep" and interesting themes going on, and "sell" that notion to yourself, but I DON'T NEED YOUR TEARS, I DON"T NEED YOUR SYMPATHY surrounded with that idiotic drawings and little evil jester faces to make it more InFlamesTM... I could connect with that only if I was a 13 year old girl. Maybe not even then.
Like a caricature of sad&angry US teen you see in bad movies, but "sung" by a grown man with beard and funny glasses.
With older stuff you could't at least pretend that there were some "deep" and interesting themes going on, and "sell" that notion to yourself, but I DON'T NEED YOUR TEARS, I DON"T NEED YOUR SYMPATHY surrounded with that idiotic drawings and little evil jester faces to make it more InFlamesTM... I could connect with that only if I was a 13 year old girl. Maybe not even then.
Jester Slave
Narcissist
Bit of a stretch. Can't say I have ever been mesmerized by song lyrics, let alone IF's. I like clever turns, dark and chaotic lyrics. They are fun, and they are focusing on describing events or feelings which are nigh impossible, so you have a lot of leeway as to how to iinterpret said lyrics. Dark, gloomy motifs are just more fun and cool in general to me. It's not that I can't appreciate a Stairway to Heaven, but I don't listen to music to be enlightened.
With IF, I couldn't understand half of the lyrics to begin with, so my love or hate for the band was barely influenced by Anders' lyrical genius. Is Take This Life a good song? Yes. Okay, cool, I like this band. I didn't hold a week long session in my town, where we printed IF booklets, so we could decide whether we, as a collective will like this band or not, because God forbid if this guy sings about mundane things. You know, like imagine a man in his 30s that he is Free Falling, or being Triggered because he can't remember his own name. Yeah, Free Fall and Trigger were definitely the Holy Grail of human expressionism, while newer songs obviously can't reach that height.
You really are becoming the very mockery of yourself if you believe half of that bs you are trying to spread right now. The biggest problem with Battles for example is not its lyrics. They are mostly shit or mundane, but it wouldn't be a problem if the focus wasn't on that. The album however is way too stripped of everything, and Anders is absolutely in the forefront of every song, which forces you to listen to his lyrics. No one gives a shit if Triggered has just as lame lyrics as some of the songs on Battles when the production and the overall performance of the band (including Anders) makes it work. Is it cool how he sings the verses in Trigger? Yeah, they are pretty dark, cool and fits the music. And to 97% of the people, that's what matters, that's what resonates with them.
You simply don't like the songs, so you turn everything they have as the reason for them being shit. I could go on a rant about how it has been proven that even with idiotic lyrics a song can become a hit, but there is no need to go that far as In Flames themselves has barely produced anything which could be showcased in university for the literature majors like yourself. We have personal struggles for the last 18 years now, and we had convuluted, artsy shit before that. These are all great if you are going through your teen rage, or reading your first ever book and you think you are now an intellectual, but in the grand scheme of things, they are no more and no less than bang average song lyrics. Oh what, you think Zombie Inc. invented the wheel with its social commentary? Don't make me laugh.
A curious thing to say. To become a mockery of myself I would first have had to have initially been standing for a respectable position. Now as far as I'm aware you've always found my opinions to be bollocks, so if you're saying I've become a mockery of a mockery, does that mean I've actually somehow through a negative become a positive? Intriguing stuff, Slave. I'm glad we had this conversation.
I was too old for this shit ten years ago as far as Anders lyrics are concerned
ASOP was the cliff edge for me. Albums before that had some stupid lines - "I like u better ded, and i'm better off alone!!!", "I take a knife and carve it in, want to see a fault as a part of your pretty skin (® Slave) and of course -"It's not so much the pain
It's more the actual knife
Pretending the picture is perfect
I cut myself to sleep
I close my eyes for a second
And curse my fragile soul
I scream to hide that I'm lonely
The echo calls my name"
Just lol. Stfu Anders you manbaby.
- but MOST of the lyrics pre-ASOP were still reasonable. Not great, but fine. Then ASOP. Disconnected, Sleepless Again, Delight and Angers, The Chosen Pessimist... the rest are acceptable, but that's a lot of shit, and it doesn't get any better going forward.
Last two albums have been some of the absolute worst as far as lyrics go, though. Like, way worse than what came before it. Drained in particular has to be up there as some of the most shitty, puerile, vomit-inducing words ever put to paper or music. It's not often you see somebody write increasingly childish lyrics as they grow older, but that's what we're getting with Anders. Even the artwork is like a children's colouring book this time, so maybe it's being done on purpose? I'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt at this point.
Alright guys, I did a read through of the SC lyrics and the Battles lyrics to really see what is going on in there.
On Siren Charms I think Anders’ main sin is some of it comes across as try hard poetry. Overall I don’t see a lot of pure emo shit. In fact I would say SC lyrics are a pretty good mix of personal and otherwise. Maybe they are all actually personal, but at least it’s disguised more.
Battles has some really cringey lines, but it’s not like every single line of every song makes me puke. Anders has a coach to help him sing, why doesn’t he get an editor to help him clean things up?
I agree with Slave if the music was good we wouldn’t care. But in this case these are teaser lyrics and teaser artwork and we don’t have any music to go by. They have to stand alone and so we will judge them alone.
On Siren Charms I think Anders’ main sin is some of it comes across as try hard poetry. Overall I don’t see a lot of pure emo shit. In fact I would say SC lyrics are a pretty good mix of personal and otherwise. Maybe they are all actually personal, but at least it’s disguised more.
Battles has some really cringey lines, but it’s not like every single line of every song makes me puke. Anders has a coach to help him sing, why doesn’t he get an editor to help him clean things up?
I agree with Slave if the music was good we wouldn’t care. But in this case these are teaser lyrics and teaser artwork and we don’t have any music to go by. They have to stand alone and so we will judge them alone.
Well, yeah. It's not like SOAPF's lyrics are particularly good (the album as a whole, I mean. The actual song is probably the best lyrically on the album). There's a lot of stupid lines in there too. "AND I DON'T CARE WHAT U THINK... OR MAYBE I DO???"
But, to me at least, the music is really good so I can ignore the idiocy of some of the lyrics and still dig the album. That is not the case for Battles or Siren Charms. The music is average at best and pathetic at worst, and the lyrics just manage to drag everything down further.
The hard truth is that good lyrics will rarely be able to mask terrible music, but good music can mask terrible lyrics, or at least allow you to ignore them.
Do I have faith after the last two albums that the music behind the latest lyrics is going to be good enough to let me ignore them? No.
LOL I always forget those are actual real lyrics. And on their “renaissance album” no less. Can you imagine Bjorn spending months writing the best music he could and then hearing/reading those lines? Dude must have beast patience not to flip out on Anders.
On Battles one of my favorite songs is In My Room. Dude. “In My Room”? That is the most juvenile song title I think I’ve ever heard. But I will overlook it.
Like you said, good music can mask bad lyrics. But good lyrics can make good music even better. It’s like In Flames is always handicapping themselves.
That's Iron Maiden´s history.
Yep, but these days they seem to be competing about wich one is doing worst.
Something like:
"Hey Bjorn, I've got this lame lyrics".
"Cool. What if I add some empty guitar riffs?"
'Why don't you take some random riff from our catalogue and make a song out of it?"
"Brilliant."
"Yes, I know."
Jester Slave
Narcissist
Nah, the basis of Anders producing some embarassing lyrics, especially as of late was true. You had some solid ground, then you decided to set it all on fire, because it's more flashy or whatever; only you know why you do what you do.
Didn't check the other teasers, but the vengeance one was cool. I like artwork that resembles a mad man (R2R, ASOP, this new one) or overall dark and gloomy (SOAPF, SC), than colorful skulls with hands melting into them. Yeah, it looks cool (or at least okay), but it's not hitting anything maaaan. Battles' art is just painfully faceless - hence the skull I guess.
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