Is metal a subgenre of rock?

[Nile577]

Listen to Judas Priest, Candlemass, and Lykathea Aflame. Then, put your head down on your keyboard and cry.

In my opinion 'dynamics' refers to a variation in musical intensity, with the standard/usual means of interpreting this being through a change of 'volume' sometimes concomitant with an increased/decreased density of sound. The works of Stravinksy, Mahler and Verdi would be good examples of masterful use of dynamics (particularly Verdi's requiem which contains parts written in 5f, 5p and everything in between).

Metal music is played with electric guitars that offer a very limited dynamic range compared to a violin or choral voice. The only dynamic change I hear in the bands you mentioned is the tired, 'really quiet/really loud' juxtaposition. You could make an argument that shifting from a slow riff to a faster one demonstrates dynamic variation, but, in my humble opinion, this would be a rather unorthodox use of the term. Besides, with notable exceptions, aren’t a number of Metal genres intentionally supposed to be unsubtle, angry sonic violence?

Literally the only Metal(ish) band I can think of that use dynamics tastefully on a regular basis would be Neurosis.

 

[MasterOLightning]

Literally the only Metal(ish) band I can think of that use dynamics tastefully on a regular basis would be Neurosis.

You must not listen to very many bands. Try nearly the entire doom metal subgenre. And how do you mention Neurosis, but not Isis? Those two are always lumped together.

 

[Nile577]

You must not listen to very many bands. Try nearly the entire doom metal subgenre. And how do you mention Neurosis, but not Isis? Those two are always lumped together.

Dynamically diverse music would display a wide varitation of dynamic range across a single phrase. e.g. Rodrigo's Concierto de Aranjuez or the opening to Beethoven's Pathetique sonata.

I've never heard Doom Metal in which guitar tonality changes in intensity ('volume') throughout individual riffs. The only dynamic I hear in Metal is, as mentioned above, the 'really quiet / really loud' juxtaposition (in Doom Metal found in Esoteric, Warhorse, Skepticism, Worship etc).

 

[Bas667]

My opinion probably isn't worth very much but I would think that metal wasclearly a subgenre of Rockmusic a time ago, but now that metal has that much subgenres I don't think you could call metal a subgenre anymore, although sometimes the difference is pretty small, especially for outsiders who don't know that much about rock and metal. :Smug:

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

This is a strange combination of some point I didn't make, and something which doesn't even oppose that point in the first place.

Mini-WTF!? gallery:

Bahaha.

 

[anonymousnick2001]

In my opinion 'dynamics' refers to a variation in musical intensity, with the standard/usual means of interpreting this being through a change of 'volume' sometimes concomitant with an increased/decreased density of sound. The works of Stravinksy, Mahler and Verdi would be good examples of masterful use of dynamics (particularly Verdi's requiem which contains parts written in 5f, 5p and everything in between).

Metal music is played with electric guitars that offer a very limited dynamic range compared to a violin or choral voice. The only dynamic change I hear in the bands you mentioned is the tired, 'really quiet/really loud' juxtaposition. You could make an argument that shifting from a slow riff to a faster one demonstrates dynamic variation, but, in my humble opinion, this would be a rather unorthodox use of the term. Besides, with notable exceptions, aren’t a number of Metal genres intentionally supposed to be unsubtle, angry sonic violence?

I assumed you meant something else. If you mean dynamics in the literal sense as in Verdi's Requiem or stravinsky's Firebird Suite, I'm afraid I can find little in comparison.

I believed GoD or VVVVV or someone once said that metal was 'classical music's bitch.' Now you see why. Metal has created for itself a unique template which can be applied to and mixed with almost any other genre of music successfully, and can reach a level of sophistication only achieved by classical music. However, it will never surpass, because unlike classical music, metal is still limited by its core musical boundaries of guitar-based melody/harmony/counterpoint and intense distortion required to create guitar riffs. The distortion level can change, speed can change, and loud-soft clichés can run abound, but you are correct...metal will never achieve the same level of dynamic diversity.

Dynamics are present, though. They simply run from band to band rather than within individual works.

 

[anonymousnick2001]

In my opinion 'dynamics' refers to a variation in musical intensity, with the standard/usual means of interpreting this being through a change of 'volume' sometimes concomitant with an increased/decreased density of sound. The works of Stravinksy, Mahler and Verdi would be good examples of masterful use of dynamics (particularly Verdi's requiem which contains parts written in 5f, 5p and everything in between).

Metal music is played with electric guitars that offer a very limited dynamic range compared to a violin or choral voice. The only dynamic change I hear in the bands you mentioned is the tired, 'really quiet/really loud' juxtaposition. You could make an argument that shifting from a slow riff to a faster one demonstrates dynamic variation, but, in my humble opinion, this would be a rather unorthodox use of the term. Besides, with notable exceptions, aren’t a number of Metal genres intentionally supposed to be unsubtle, angry sonic violence?

I assumed you meant something else. If you mean dynamics in the literal sense as in Verdi's Requiem or Stravinsky's Firebird Suite, I'm afraid I can find little in comparison.

I believed GoD or VVVVV or someone once said that metal was 'classical music's biatch.' Now you see why. Metal has created for itself a unique template which can be applied to and mixed with almost any other genre of music successfully, and can reach a level of sophistication only achieved by classical music. However, it will never surpass, because unlike classical music, metal is still limited by its core musical boundaries of guitar-based melody/harmony/counterpoint and intense distortion required to create guitar riffs. The distortion level can change, speed can change, and loud-soft clichés can run abound, but you are correct...metal will never achieve the same level of dynamic diversity.

Dynamics are present, though. They simply run from band to band rather than within individual works.

 

[Profanity]

Metal is simply Heavy Rock and Rock is a subgenre of either Pop or Rhythm and Blues.

 

[Cynical]

And you are simply fucking stupid and a subgenre of either "too stupid to fucking believe" or "utterly fucking retarded".

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

Ahaha good one.

 

[MasterOLightning]

Dynamically diverse music would display a wide varitation of dynamic range across a single phrase. e.g. Rodrigo's Concierto de Aranjuez or the opening to Beethoven's Pathetique sonata.

I've never heard Doom Metal in which guitar tonality changes in intensity ('volume') throughout individual riffs. The only dynamic I hear in Metal is, as mentioned above, the 'really quiet / really loud' juxtaposition (in Doom Metal found in Esoteric, Warhorse, Skepticism, Worship etc).

When you state it that way it makes more sense. Of course there's not a lot of note-to-note volume change in riffs. The only time that really happens is in soloing. But, in metal's defense, as Nick said, the variation from band to band, or in a lot of cases from song to song, is pretty vast. Only jazz and classical have as much dynamic diversity as metal.

 

[Bas667]

I think metal isn't a subgenre of rock because someone can like metal but dislike rock.

 

[Kenneth R.]

thats not grounds though, since if you like alternative but dislike rock, rock is still the parent genre of alt.

edit: GoD said what i was thinking, only much clearer than i could word it.

|
V

 

[no country for old wainds]

I think metal isn't a subgenre of rock because someone can like metal but dislike rock.

If I'm being really, really, hugely generous, your reasoning is, uhm, awkward. It's like saying "I think dogs aren't animals because people can like animals but dislike dogs", or "I think Army Men 3D isn't a video game because people can like video games and dislike Army Men 3D."

 

[anonymousnick2001]

Don't feed the troll, because trolls go to Hell.