Kazrog's Studio Build (Planning Phase)

[Joematthews]

Nah sigurd, he's right. Ideally each wall should be angles at greater than 6 degrees so the angle between the front and side wall should be greater than 96 degrees, widening towoards the back of the room, and then the back should be heavily treated. This is because of the dispersion characteristics of most studio speakers, they greatly loose energy off axis, and by angling the walls the sound has nothing to reflect off. Not only that, but it "aims" the sound to the back of the room, not at the listening position.

However in a limit space like kazrog might have, its not something that can be put into practice.

Joe

 

[AdamWathan]

Yeah seriously, I don't think John Sayers would go out of his way to design every control room he's ever built as non-parallel if parallel walls sounded better... Parallel walls means standing waves and room nodes which means huge peaks and nulls in your frequency response that you will be battling with room treatment forever.

 

[Metaltastic]

And you can still have non-parallel walls that are symmeterical; just build your studio like a big clamshell! (but with all flat panels, so it'd be like a super-low-res shell with lots of aliasing )

 

[AdamWathan]

And you can still have non-parallel walls that are symmeterical; just build your studio like a big clamshell! (but with all flat panels, so it'd be like a super-low-res shell with lots of aliasing )

We went over this Marcus, see the big picture I posted that we are all discussing

 

[Metaltastic]

Wait, where? Nothing's showing up (though I find that often happens, a pic just refuses to load on my comp even though when I go to quote the post the URL shows up...)

 

[AdamWathan]

Wait, where? Nothing's showing up (though I find that often happens, a pic just refuses to load on my comp even though when I go to quote the post the URL shows up...)

Haha, here you go man!
http://i.pbase.com/o6/22/544522/1/87339769.Ip3ywY94.iso6.gif

 

[Metaltastic]

Ironic word choice in error messages too, considering who linked me there

 

[Kazrog]

I just wanted to say that I've been reading the John Sayers forum a fair amount today and that I'm currently re-thinking everything. Apparently a square is the worst possible shape ever (I should have figured as much, given all the time I've spent in major studios in my life.) I will post back when I have more of a concrete plan. Thanks again for all the advice!

 

[drew_drummer]

I think you're making a good move by re-thinking the whole thing. Those cabins look tiny, they are too square, and it is outside; and made of wood. Can anyone say damp and rot? Not good for electronic equipment.

If you can afford it, why not rent out a room somewhere in a warehouse district?

 

[Kazrog]

I think you're making a good move by re-thinking the whole thing. Those cabins look tiny, they are too square, and it is outside; and made of wood. Can anyone say damp and rot? Not good for electronic equipment.

If you can afford it, why not rent out a room somewhere in a warehouse district?

The cabins are fully insulated and can have synthetic siding. There's no way that damp or rot would be an issue, plenty of studios are constructed with these same materials.

I'm building a small studio on my property, though, one way or another, I just have to customize the internal walls. Renting isn't an option, that just adds needless overhead and presents the same issues (rectangular rooms, etc., that would need internal walls to correct.)

After doing some reading today, I've noticed that a lot of control rooms seem to follow this basic type of layout:

On a smaller scale, I need to do a similar design if the room is going to sound good. Or I just need to make it a completely dead room (which may be the only option actually.)

 

[AudioGeekZine]

*cough cooler/better option cough*

 

[Kazrog]

*cough cooler/better option cough*

Believe it or not, this is the first thing I considered doing, because it is pure epic win. The issue is that, upon researching the costs involved, as well as some of the problems it may create for my with the homeowners' association (aesthetics), I've been looking into other options.

I've been pricing cargo containers, getting quotes, etc. for a while, and it will be difficult/impossible to do anything even close to "Studio A" of that particular studio in terms of basic construction for less than $20k USD. But perhaps I should explore it further and see if I can't get a better price on the container itself. I can always paint the exterior or add awnings, etc. to placate the HOA nazis.

If that proves outside my budget, I most likely will just go ahead with a more conventional outbuilding and treat the room.

 

[AudioGeekZine]

With the shed in your first post, 10x10 is not enough room. While my main mixing area is 9x9, I've got another 9 feet behind me, and 9 feet on the side.
Two of them connected together, so it's 10x20 and it's not so bad.

You know, if you write a business plan you can build whatever you want.

 

[Kazrog]

Upon doing some further research, it looks as though the cargo container option is the best way to go, and will be within my budget and space requirements. I've found a fantastic price on a pristine cargo container, and I've been reading up on what I need to do in Rod Gervais' book. I'll let you guys know as things develop, I will likely be building a semi-clone of "Studio A" of Spark1 Studios. Thanks for the link!

 

[AudioGeekZine]

haha, wicked. I really want to see the progress of this.

 

[Kazrog]

So I'm going to initiate some dialogue with my HOA and present it in the best light I can. I'm going to make some cheap yet attractive landscaping improvements along with the studio install, so it won't just look like I dropped a container on my property with no regard for aesthetics. I'll let you guys know how that goes (California can be pretty stupid when it comes to stuff like this.) If that doesn't work out, I have some potential nearby places where I can rent a parcel of land to put it on, within a short walking distance from my house, so I'll pursue that as plan B (although that brings with it added overhead, which is obviously best avoided.)

Upon closer inspection of the Spark1 Studio A design, I'm a bit put off by the surprisingly "ghetto" vibe of the desk (road rack on the desk, asymmetrical design, etc.), and the considerable distance between the listening position and the nicely soffit-mounted nearfields. I've already got a nice desk (Studio RTA Producer's Station) and I'm definitely keen on incorporating it into my layout as a first priority. I'm using Auralex MoPads with my nearfields, so they are totally decoupled from the desk, and I've got all the rackspace I want with tons of room to grow as I get more gear (right now it's empty aside from my Firepod, Engl e530, Manley Elop, Urei LA-4, and Roland DC-30 Analog Chorus-Echo.)

What I'm likely to do is strive for more space and symmetry, with my desk near an end of the room with plenty of space for sound to travel behind it. I'm considering a single-room layout as a possibility, rather than trying to make a mix room and iso booth in one container. As long as the studio itself is isolated, I'm cool with wearing earplugs if I want to mic up something loud, I just want the room to sound good, and avoid comb filtering and standing waves like the plague. The dimensions of a 20 ft. cargo container present some challenges when working with the room ratios in the Gervais book. According to the best calculations I can figure from the layout pictures in the article, the Spark1 Studio A design was not based on any of the recommended ratios in the book, so perhaps compromises were made for some reason. I'm still trying to arrive at something that even begins to make sense right now, and I may take this thread over to some studio builder forums.

 

[exoslime]

cool!!!!! looking forward to it

about the cargo, great idea, but i can imagine that the air can get pretty hot and sticky, you would need an air conditioning!

cheers and good luck!!!
chris

 

[Kazrog]

cool!!!!! looking forward to it

about the cargo, great idea, but i can imagine that the air can get pretty hot and sticky, you would need an air conditioning!

cheers and good luck!!!
chris

With any studio, having a proper HVAC system is a must, and it has to be ducted and routed properly, or it will render useless any isolation work you've done. Any small hole in the sonic isolation of your studio is a chance for sound to enter an exit the studio - which is what you don't want - and the chain of isolation is only as strong as the weakest link.

This is serious shit, I'm glad that I'm reading the Rod Gervais book, I highly recommend anyone who wants to build a studio read it. It's required reading IMO. I've learned a shitload in the last 24 hours or so, it's made me realize how many dumb things my friends and I have done with respect to acoustics in the past.

 

[Joematthews]

I would actually flip the john sayers design round if you want a seperate room for recording and mixing so the door is at the back. Failing that just go for the biggest dimensions you can, that extra space is worth more than golden room ratio's. Build the biggest motherfucking bass trap ever on the back wall, and it won't be a problem, and you'll have way more space.

I love the idea of a container studio though, I kind of dream of having something like that, although I'd need 2 because I couldn't deal with the lack of space in one.

Joe

 

[digitaldeath]

Can we get an update Kazrog?
I too have also thought about using a shipping container in the past. Do you plan to track drums or is it primarily for mixing?