LFDGD or VIVA EMPTINESS ?

[requiem]

midget, if you like that phrase "If you die I will Die too" (actually there's only two tones in "too" )
QUOTE]

What song are you listening to? There are more tones than two in the way that word is sung.

 

[Dora]

V.E is sad music, LFDGD is not + sad music is better then happy music = V.E is better then LFDGD.

haha, this is stupid. VE is not sad, its only angry and rough. LFDGD is the saddest. Thats why I prefer it. It has more emotions.
Be careful with mixing anger with sadness, especially when u need to feel one and you feel the other instead, it can cause some troubles in the psyche :Smug:

LFDGD for me. VE is the second.

 

[Drynwhyl]

really, can't compare two, three or more Katatonia pieces in a like manner, each one album have something the following has transformed kinda different, though the deep blowing feeling always remains.
need it all. seems i'm not fit for a proper critic.
LFDGD is more bizzare and abstract - both music and lyrics. VE emphasizes the fancy, the unconscious and everything this can manage to envelop, it's more complex and washed away, placed in a bigger context.

 

[Varg-]

Dora, please... V.E is very SAD, and pretty much everybody here has agreed with it. You maybe just have downloaded a few songs and then written your opinion?
You're right, there are some newmetal-riffs that describes anger, but VE contains sorrow as first priority. I mean, listen to "burn the remembrance", "Sleeper", "Criminals", "A premonition", the verses in "wealth", for fuck sake, every song is sad! Read the lyrics, feel the atmosphere damnit, and the last thing you should do is to tell me what katatonia is and isn't!

 

[Deliverance6]

I personally cant compare any two Katatonia CD's. Its like saying what the best dog is. I depends on what the dog is for. It depends on the mood that you want the dog to have. I like VE more because it fits my life more (today) than LFDGD. Tomorrow who knows, but I can say that they are brilliantly different in their own ways. I can hardly listen to TD because of the part of my life that I was going through when I had that CD on repeat for a year. They are all brilliant, but as of now I like VE more than LFDGD. And I could care less if it seems more (MAINSTREAM). They play from the inside out. If they did get on MTV with VE it will not make me feel any less of a fan, nor would I be threatened by the possibility of their becoming bigger. I am who I am, they are who they are, that shouldnt change except in growth towards our ultimate goals in life. I have mine, they have theirs.

 

[Varg-]

midgetwar, it's cool man...
You don't think about that when you're writing it. You're only thinking of how freakin good the line is

 

[Dora]

Dora, please... V.E is very SAD, and pretty much everybody here has agreed with it. You maybe just have downloaded a few songs and then written your opinion?
You're right, there are some newmetal-riffs that describes anger, but VE contains sorrow as first priority. I mean, listen to "burn the remembrance", "Sleeper", "Criminals", "A premonition", the verses in "wealth", for fuck sake, every song is sad! Read the lyrics, feel the atmosphere damnit, and the last thing you should do is to tell me what katatonia is and isn't!

I know(have) the album, and I still think its not that moody. Its sad-mad then.. think about how it starts! Its full of energy, anger, stress. Its dark, its doom and painful. But I think we have a different opinion on sadness then.. For me it needs to be slow. Like The Cure, e.g.

 

[Varg-]

Dora, read my concept in my thread about "Viva Emptiness and The Ghost of the Sun"... you get an explanation there...

It starts with anger, yes, anger against god? And then, because of the actual incident he calms down and it turns into complete sorrow as she's dying, then he goes mad, about the situation, and then he calms down again, thinking of comitting suicide(very sad), and then he commits suicide(very sad), and then he returns to her in the city of glass(happy), and then the last instrumental song describes the eternity of death (neutral). As I said... read my concept...

 

[Varg-]

And hey, dora! No hard feelings? I like you, but you shouldn't say that my opinions are stupid

 

[TheFourthHorseman]

Read the lyrics, feel the atmosphere damnit, and the last thing you should do is to tell me what katatonia is and isn't!

Dora, please... V.E is very SAD, and pretty much everybody here has agreed with it. You maybe just have downloaded a few songs and then written your opinion?

Did I say something about you using The Majority as "proof" of what is good and what is not to an individual and what she/he feels about certain band/album/song?

You're so stuck up yourself man. Not everyone is going to read your idea of what the concept on Viva Emptiness is about or read your opinion on VE and go "oh my why did I not see that before?", in fact I don't think many at all will.
The atmosphere is very different, and it's easy to see why people would see Viva Emptiness as less sad of an album than Last Fair Deal.

Last Fair Deal is about a ton more sad, depressing, good etc. than Viva Emptiness. I've probably posted that before in this thread, but that's quite alright. Hell, even Sulfur and Help Me Disappear are better than any of the songs on Viva Emptiness.

 

[Varg-]

Okay, it's a little bit individual, but I think some things are so obvious, and I see nothing wrong discussing it, trying to explain my opinion, trying to get the others to see it from my opinion. And ofcourse I piss off when someone says my opinions are stupid, idiot.

And, yes, I know that ppl won't read my concept, and that has alot to do with the fact that ppl here arn't so interested in katatonia anyway. I'm really interested and would like to discuss the details. That's why I took my time to explain my big opinion about V.E. but you maybe think I did it because I think it's fucking funny to type on my keyboard, moron? I want to discuss, share my opinions, get peoples opinions. I don't like threads about like "WHAT DO YOU LISTEN AT RIGHT NOW?", "KATATONIA IN LAS VEGAS - OR MAYBE NOT?", "WHO LISTENS TO MY DYING BRIDE?", "LOOK AT ME", "HI THERE" and many other pointless threads... I don't force anyone to discuss with me...

They are both great albums, and both of them are sad, but both lyrics and music are pure sadness on V.E. Listen to tearsgas, bury you, clean today, sweet nurse, tell a soul etc... Don't say that the music on these songs are sad.... god damnit

 

[[0hr]Sunlapse]

viva emptiness

 

[Dora]

Varg- youre right about the word "stupid" I shouldnt use.

About sadness - its a matter of taste maybe.. still its very common for ppl to mix feelings. For e.g. a typical Male who is hurt usually responds with anger -instead of sorrow- because "boys dont cry"..

Anyway, its not a good idea to compare the two albums as better-worse just because they are Different. You can prefer one to the other but thats not a quality issue.

 

[Varg-]

Yes, I don't think that it's fun to compare these albums either : /
And I know what you mean by anger, they have spread out some really agressive riffs all over the album, but that, as well as the sad parts, is an expression of feelings to the lyrics. And that's really cool about V.E. They havn't done the same way with lfdgd.
But I guess the lfdgd - "sound / production" is better then V.E! Just listen to the intro in disposession and you're trapped

 

[TheFourthHorseman]

And ofcourse I piss off when someone says my opinions are stupid, idiot.

Your opinions shouldn't be called stupid, but you on the other hand have all the right in the world to call a person on the whole an idiot. You're really oftentimes a laugh.

And, yes, I know that ppl won't read my concept, and that has alot to do with the fact that ppl here arn't so interested in katatonia anyway. I'm really interested and would like to discuss the details.

I like to do that too. I'm quite sure a lot of people will be interested in the concept. If you want to mention it in every thread, alright then.

I want to discuss, share my opinions, get peoples opinions. I don't like threads about like "WHAT DO YOU LISTEN AT RIGHT NOW?", "KATATONIA IN LAS VEGAS - OR MAYBE NOT?", "WHO LISTENS TO MY DYING BRIDE?", "LOOK AT ME", "HI THERE" and many other pointless threads... I don't force anyone to discuss with me...

Sure, all the threads from new posters can be annoying, but they're hard to avoid when there's no moderation.
Now, if you have a problem with threads like the MDB one, don't read it and post (in) a "non-pointless thread." Maybe you want to talk about Katatonia year after year, some others might not.

Listen to tearsgas, bury you, clean today, sweet nurse, tell a soul etc... Don't say that the music on these songs are sad.... god damnit

I told you, it's individual. Why do you keep banging your head against a wall (something I feel at times when replying to you)?

 

[Varg-]

I wouldn't say that it's all individual... sorry, but it's so obvious to me that some songs are sad, like on V.E. and some songs are less sad, like on l.f.d. I havn't discussed with anyone saying that the MUSIC on l.f.d. is more sad then on V.E. They say like me, the opposite. Well... think what you want to, end embarass yourself

 

[philipmartin]

feelings depends on the person that is listening, his situation etc, kata made the albums they wanted to make at their times and both are marvelous and success, so varg perhaps for you 1 song is happy and another person is listening the same song and is crying you know, your concept of ve is good, but i don't think jonas ever made a happy letter ajajajajajj, ho and i love the now playing threads , i discover many bands from there you know and get in touch about what the other fans of kata around the world listen, that's good, all the threads + to the forum

 

[TheFourthHorseman]

I wouldn't say that it's all individual...

Obviously not on the level of saying that Backstreet Boys is the saddest music in the world (well, I'm sure there's people who say that too...maybe it is all individual), but especially when you get into details you can't say this and that for a fact.

Argh...you drive me up the wall. There you went again using The Holy Majority as an example.
Also, lyrics and vocals add to the music too in case you haven't noticed. Sure, a song like Sweet Nurse might musically be more upbeat than the stuff on Viva Emptiness, but to me songs like that (especially the vocal melodies and riffs), or songs like Disposession, Teargas, Tonight's Music, Clean Today etc. are much more sad than the agressive songs on VE. There's sad songs on Viva Emptiness too, but on the whole Viva Emptiness has nothing on Last Fair Deal to me when comparing the sadness of them.

 

[Varg-]

Just because people has lack of knowledge, doesn't that change the fact. Just because loads of ppl think that Norway is a country in South Africa, doesn't make that question individual, when some say that it doesn't. There is a fact. There are easy questions and there are hard ones. To differ V.E. and l.f.d. and decide which one is the most sad, is one of the more, I guess difficult questions. Which lyrics that are most sad is very individual, correct, but when it comes to music there's a differance...
But I don't want to argue about this anymore....
One last fact is that Anders and Jonas had sorrow in mind, writing everything on V.E. They didn't the same on L.F.D. which expalins the pretty happy riffs on that album.

 

[TheFourthHorseman]

That's where it gets complicated doesn't it? How can you tell only based on what you feel what the other person feels? The comparison between the knowledge of Norway's location and human feelings is stupid.
It's not only the lyrics which are individual. Obviously music is individual too, people can easily get different feelings (or no feelings at all) from the same song or album. Some Sonata Arctica fan thinks the band's music is the most emotional thing ever, I think it's droning emotionless crap. That's the main principle. Music is individual just as well.
About the comparison again, you're going wrong when you're saying that this "Last Fair Deal vs. Viva Emptiness sadness" debate has an answer (by saying that it's one of the more difficult questions). How can you find a universal answer for it when even in this thread people have disagreed so obviously on the question?
Once more, music is individual.

Fuck man, you said:

My point is: lemme see some intelligence in the forums, discuss deep and interesting things about katatonia -lyrics and -feelings.

Now you say that you don't want to argue about this anymore. Unfortunately that just keeps telling me that you refuse to take any opinions that don't equal yours.

So where do you draw this fact that Anders and Jonas didn't have sorrow in mind when writing Last Fair Deal from?
Also, one last thought. Even if Anders and Jonas meant Last Fair Deal not so sound so sad (as Viva Emptiness, as you keep saying), who's to say the listener should think so too? Once the music arrives in the ear of the listener, it's there for the listener to make something of, not the artist.