Lost...

[sh0kr0k]

*SPOILERS*

Good stuff! I love the idea of Ben controlling the Smoke Monster! But then that makes me angry about the Mr. Echo thing because I thought he was cool! lol! Does the SMoke Monster eat/kill people? If so, then why do next weeks previews have that main guy that killed Ben's daughter? If not, then where is Mr Echo?!?!

I didn't remember that Ben survived, AND I had no idea that Sayid remarried! ..8 years? What 8 years? Ben's little closet tunnel - is that new or did we know about that already?

 

[The Invisible Guest]

Yeah, Ben apparently can summon the smoke moster ... still not sure what that's all about. Hopefully we'll get some more answers on that soon. That was a cool scene.

I think Sayid said he had been searching for Nadia for 8 years ... I'd assume that part of that search was interrupted by his stay on the island.

As for the secret room .. it's been shown before, but the tunnell was a new twist. When they showed Ben's secret room previously there was a stack of cash, and some ID's .. one of which was that of Dean Moriarty. That's who Ben indentified himself as in Tunisia.

Britt

 

[Hal9000]

There seems to be a chess theme going on.

Ben called his daughter a "pawn."

Ben and Charles Widmore say they can't kill each other. In chess, the king can not be captured (killed). The object is the trap the king in a checkmate. Ben told them the mercenaries would not kill him. He also said Widmore had "changed the rules" implying the two of them were playing a game.

Mr. Eko was a priest (bishop).

Rousseau was the mother of Ben's daughter which could represent her as a "queen" especially since she moved around the island at will.

 

[rms]

Ben called his daughter a "pawn."

That theory is sorta debunked when he was bullshitting that so they wouldn't kill his daughter, which is why he says he will kill Penny in the future and basically brokedown right there.

Also, Id ont know if you guys noticed, but the guy who shot Bens daughter was the captain of the boat where Sayyid is, atleast I think(been a month since I saw that episode )

 

[Hal9000]

Ben called his daughter a "pawn."

That theory is sorta debunked when he was bullshitting that so they wouldn't kill his daughter, which is why he says he will kill Penny in the future and basically brokedown right there.

I was referring to the terminology he used, I'm well aware he was bluffing.

 

[The Invisible Guest]

There seems to be a chess theme going on.

Ben called his daughter a "pawn."

Ben and Charles Widmore say they can't kill each other. In chess, the king can not be captured (killed). The object is the trap the king in a checkmate. Ben told them the mercenaries would not kill him. He also said Widmore had "changed the rules" implying the two of them were playing a game.

Mr. Eko was a priest (bishop).

Rousseau was the mother of Ben's daughter which could represent her as a "queen" especially since she moved around the island at will.

Yep, seems that way. Ben also said to John Locke .. I need you .. you need to stay close to me. Locke is generally a man of faith .. he also could be a bishop, as the bishop is next to the King on a chess board.

There's always been this black/white light/dark theme going on, but last night did seem as if Ben and Charles are playing a high stakes game of chess with humans as the game pieces.

Britt

 

[Hal9000]

Yep, seems that way. Ben also said to John Locke .. I need you .. you need to stay close to me. Locke is generally a man of faith .. he also could be a bishop, as the bishop is next to the King on a chess board.

Britt

Exactly, I didn't even think of that!

 

[No-Mercy]

i think the chess reference is a stretch of terminology with a pawn and a bishop.
there really wouldnt be any significance in referencing a chess game either to me.

very good episode. didnt know about the tunnel, but i have a feeling of what it is.
a while back when loche's dad was on the island ben mentioned some magical box that when you opened whatever you imagined or wanted appeared.
i think that the smoke monster and loches dad may have a similar origin and the box might be in/a part of this tunnel in his secret room.

this is the first time we really saw ben breakdown or show any sign of defeat or loss of control in the entire show, so i think were getting somewhere. clearly ben used sayid's emotions to recruit him, that was bens intention from the start.

we also got a hint of jacks possible drug/alcohol problem starting. he seemed a bit shaky and reserved when kate asked him about the pills he took.
by the way, i realized how much i missed kate, hahaha. its like a different life when your watching lost.

 

[Rider of Theli]

...Also, I dont know if you guys noticed, but the guy who shot Bens daughter was the captain of the boat where Sayyid is, atleast I think(been a month since I saw that episode )

Actually no, the guy that shot Ben's daughter is the leader of the mercenary outfit. The captain is still on the boat AFAIK.

To reference someone else's post earlier, that same mercenary leader was shown in a scene of next week's episode, yes. He was apparently not killed by the smoke monster. If you think back through the seasons, people (Eko, etc) sometimes get beaten to death by the smoke monster, but not 'eaten' or anything. My thinking is that the smoke monster took out 'most' of the mercenaries. But we know at least one escaped as evidenced by the previews.

I had read some time ago on a wikipedia entry that fans had considered the smoke monster to perhaps be a 'cloud of nanobots' due to some of the earlier scenes. Remember the scene in season 3 (I think?) where you saw the view from the smoke monster as it looked over Mr Eko? It looked as if a television screen or a computer monitor was within the cloud ... but the producers have since debunked that theory for whatever reason. I personally still think it makes perfect sense.


Overall a great episode last night. My only complaint was three lengthy commercial breaks within the first 25 minutes!
.

 

[rockyracoon]

I'm wondering what or who is preventing Ben from killing Widmore.

I didn't find these underground tunnels terribly mysterious. Leaders and those in positions of great power typically have escape options built into their living quarters for times of emergency/crisis. Nothing new about that concept. My guess is that Ben has a series of tunnels allowing him to access numerous points of interest on the island. After all, he's always got a contingency plan.

 

[No-Mercy]

I'm wondering what or who is preventing Ben from killing Widmore.

I didn't find these underground tunnels terribly mysterious. Leaders and those in positions of great power typically have escape options built into their living quarters for times of emergency/crisis. Nothing new about that concept. My guess is that Ben has a series of tunnels allowing him to access numerous points of interest on the island. After all, he's always got a contingency plan.

we dont even know if that is a tunnel that leads anywhere though. afterall, he basically used it to somehow summon the smoke monster and than came right back out in a matter of no more than a couple minutes.
its not really that there is something else hidden in his already hidden room that is surprising. its that even he seemed hesistant to enter when he did, (by facial expression/body language). and as soon as he went in and out, was a bit dirty, the smoke monster appeared and killed (most) of the mercenaries that is surprising

i still think that is somehow connected to the box he mentioned to loche to explain how his father got on the island.

 

[rms]

Actually no, the guy that shot Ben's daughter is the leader of the mercenary outfit. The captain is still on the boat AFAIK.

He can't be both?

And I forgot but everyone else has too, Im wondering what's up with Hurley and Jacob since Ben said Hurley knew where he was

 

[rockyracoon]

And I forgot but everyone else has too, Im wondering what's up with Hurley and Jacob since Ben said Hurley knew where he was

Yeah strange because at first thought I'm thinking, oh well of course we all saw Hurley stumble upon Jacob's cabin by chance. But then, Ben should clearly know where to find it without the aid of Hurley. Unless Jacob has relocated to better digs.

 

[No-Mercy]

Yeah strange because at first thought I'm thinking, oh well of course we all saw Hurley stumble upon Jacob's cabin by chance. But then, Ben should clearly know where to find it without the aid of Hurley. Unless Jacob has relocated to better digs.

theres obviously something more.
when he stumbled upon it, he saw it, but then it "dissapeared" from his sight, and it wasnt there any longer.
so there is definitly something strange about the cabin/jacob that requires a connection to find.
i wouldnt really even call it stumbling upon it, because clearly jacob had more to do with hurley seeing it than hurley's luck did.

 

[rockyracoon]

i wouldnt really even call it stumbling upon it, because clearly jacob had more to do with hurley seeing it than hurley's luck did.

I call it stumbled upon because that's what happened from Hurley's perspective. He certainly wasn't actively in search of a cabin he had no knowledge of.

 

[No-Mercy]

I call it stumbled upon because that's what happened from Hurley's perspective. He certainly wasn't actively in search of a cabin he had no knowledge of.

yea i know what u meant i was just thinking during my last post and realized that jacob probably wanted hurley to find him

 

[Dark One]

Good stuff everyone - I enjoyed reading the varying perspectives on the new episode.

One thing I really loved was the frustratingly satisfying evil look on Ben's face when he knew he had Sayid under his control after the death of Nadia. Ben is such a compelling character. Locke as well.

Jason

 

[rockyracoon]

Ben is such a compelling character. Locke as well.
Jason

Indeed. Equally compelling is the dynamic between the two. It's always funny to me how many times Locke tries to put his foot down and demand answers from Ben. And yet there's always some sort of distraction or subterfuge either coincidental or created by Ben to bail him out of being forced to divulge info.

 

[usaprogmusic]

I'm wondering what or who is preventing Ben from killing Widmore.

Never realized this thread was here ... Ok now I join the fun!

A friend of mine had a theory last night as we were discussing this week's episode, and I kinda agree with him.

Perhaps Widmore had been to the island at some point in the past (maybe the Black Rock?), and like Michael has been infected by the powers of the island, and can not die? This is why Ben can not kill Widmore, and has to use his daughter to get back at him.

There seems to be others who can not die or seem very very old (do not age) like Dr. Richard Alpert. The island obviously has some kind of healing/aging remedy for some people.

Also, I am not sure if Ben is "controlling" the smoke monster, but maybe just summoning it or aggravating it to use for his own benefit. He may have the ability to capture it using the CV (Cerebus Vents) we saw on the map in the hatch at some point.

My theory on the smoke monster is that it has some kind of "god-like" power and can read people's thoughts, and kills people who have a shady past, but not until that person's "job" is done on the island. Everyone has a purpose, just like some people believe that God puts them on Earth for a purpose and when that purpose is done, they die. Well the same with the smoke monster ..he determines when that person's purpose is done on the island and then kills them, if they have been "bad" in the past. Which is why it took awhile for Eko to get killed by the smoke monster. And it doesn't quite answer why he killed the Pilot in Episode 1, but I have a feeling the pilot has skeletons in his closet that just have not been revealed yet. His "job" obviously was finished - he got everyone to the island. It was his fate. Which is why the smoke monster has not killed Kate or Sawyer because they obviously have shady pasts, but their purpose is not fulfilled yet. The smoke monster has a reason to keep them alive. What the smoke monster is scientifically (material-wise), who knows ...hopefully the show's writers will reveal that by the end of the series, if they even know!

 

[sh0kr0k]

Actually no, the guy that shot Ben's daughter is the leader of the mercenary outfit. The captain is still on the boat AFAIK.
.

He is most positively the same person. I am 100% sure of it... because he reminds me of an ex-boyfriend Also, the Ben/Locke group don't know about Sayid & Desmond being on that boat, and now conversely the beach group don't know that the people on the boat who they are waiting for have just come and tried to kill everyone else. The boat was looking for the island for a reason and the survivors just pointed the way. Plus, remember when the captain was "shooting things" or "practicing" with the guns on the boat?

Interesting idea about the chess game! I'll have to pay attention to that a little more.