Metal as Anti-Establishment?

[Hammer of Might]

To what extent do you agree that metal is anti-establishment music?

While the underground nature of many more extreme styles and the inevitably small crowd base does make it out to be somewhat dislocated from society, do you think that is what the whole genre represents?

I mean, some bands seem to focus on this lyrically, but I've always considered punk the more overtly anti-establishment genre. I'm personally not anti-establishment in hardly any way, but I still listen to metal and don't find myself at odds with a lot of the ideas expressed in the lyrics of music.

So, for you is metal an anti-establishment genre? There's undoubtedly an element of rebellion in there, but does this have to mean it is against modern society? Not necessarily, although when we talk of modern concepts like religion within this "establishment" idea, then of course a lot of the time this is more clear.

I supose I mean more in terms of governments, politics - etc. Metal for the most part seems to steer clear of this side of things, whereas it is more often known to attack religious ideas.

What do you think?

 

[The_Isle]

anti-establishment?

Is that basically a fancy word for whining bitchery?

 

[Nico]

Anti-religious and politically motivated bands aside, most forms of metal represent some kind of social commentary, usually distaste for modern culture in its current state.

That's all I can think of.

 

[Melinda's Lover]

Punk, you say?

Punks have nothing to do with what you call anti-establishment. They just follow the most popular point of view on current affairs to earn money and... yeah, that's it.

To be honest, I don't care, as I listen to metal music for entertainment as a _musical experience_, not popularity and trendiness.

 

[MURAI]

Yes, Punk is more anti-establishment in a liberal way compared to Heavy Metal. Like Napalm Death for example who point their fingers at "oppressive" governments ruling the masses. They usually side with the masses than the ones in power who they always demonize. By the way, the whole "fuck the government dude" idea is fucking stupid to me because in every society there needs to be people in the top to govern to set some order. Metal has been more right wing and elitist than Punk.


Heavy Metal covers anti Judeo-Christian themes like Satan, hell, evil etc. for these reasons:

1) To show they're questioning society by criticizing Judeo-Christianity which is the very basis of western civilization.

2) Play within the fantasy of satan, hell, and what not for excitement.

3) To question if anything is actually sacred or profane at all.

 

[no country for old wainds]

Metal longs for that which modern society replaced, so yes, though it's generally not a direct attack upon the establishment like one finds in a lot of punk.

 

[Hammer of Might]

I don't think you can sum up the whole of metal in such a sweeping way GoD. Certainly some bands who see old pagan culture wiped out etc. have that kind of outlook, but I can't see how you can see that sort of attitude in older metal bands, it's more about an expression of the heavy metal way of life.

 

[no country for old wainds]

Well, metal was more of a gradual movement away from the values of modern society, and at first was expressed in a primitive form (the mostly life-loving yet somewhat immature don't-give-a-fuck-let's-just-have-fun mentality that became typical "metal culture"), but I agree with the idea that metal at its furthest stage of evolution is that which longs most for the values of the past, and that those which came previously were only stepping stones to achieve that end.

 

[kmik]

All metal either stands in opposition to modern Judeo-Christian society, romanticizes ancient Indo-European values, or both.

 

[anonymousnick2001]

All? Ok.

 

[BikerMiceFromMars]

Yes, it opposes weak judeo-christian values, got that christians. get out.

 

[kmik]

All? Ok.

It was sarcastic, no worries

 

[Cythraul]

Well, metal was more of a gradual movement away from the values of modern society, and at first was expressed in a primitive form (the mostly life-loving yet somewhat immature don't-give-a-fuck-let's-just-have-fun mentality that became typical "metal culture"), but I agree with the idea that metal at its furthest stage of evolution is that which longs most for the values of the past, and that those which came previously were only stepping stones to achieve that end.

blah blah blah...SHUT UP!

 

[DE]

wp cythraul

 

[no country for old wainds]

Get fucked Cythraul you anti-poseur poseur.

 

[polarity]

su p sotk rew

 

[MURAI]

Get fucked Cythraul you anti-poseur poseur.

dahahahah

 

[ProjectedBlack]

They usually side with the masses than the ones in power who they always demonize. By the way, the whole "fuck the government dude" idea is fucking stupid to me because in every society there needs to be people in the top to govern to set some order. Metal has been more right wing and elitist than Punk.

Is that a fact? Overall, there needs to be some governing force and I generally don't sympathize with the bands who are like "Fuck this government individual, all the problems in this world are his fault!" because it's just conformity to another sides political views and they're placing blame on one person, which is ridiculous. It doesn't matter whose in charge in this country if they're coming from one of the main two parties because bad shit is still going to be going down, it's just a matter of who can hide it better.

That being said, I don't think there needs to be governments in the way we think of them, people are too fucking stupid to allow themselves to be ruled in a massive and "free" manner. Democracy has been one of the biggest factors in pointing out the stupidity of a majority of the human race, people voting on things they are uninformed on or voting on things that have nothing to do with the political aspect. I think the American public and the majority of the rest of the world has continued on far too long with their "freedom" which they have abused excessively and dug a hole so deep I honestly don't think they can repair the damage they've done without some significant consquences.

I'm not an anarchist or a "fuck the oppressive government!" character but I do think some significant changes need to be made in politics and society in general. It won't happen in a peaceful way though, like I said, people are just too fucking stupid. They're content with being fooled and told what to do and conforming to the massive and worthless ideals of "conventional" society.

To stay on topic, I'd say Metal in general deals with a lot of anti-conformity principles when it comes to modern society and culture. I wouldn't neccasarily say it deals with anti-establishment.

 

[CF87]

Metal is an establishment plus depends on technoligical advancements.

If we did not have a 'Democracy' more than half the members here would be dead in two days. Democracy does not solve everything but it lowers death,crime a lot more than if there was no 'democracy'. We need a democracy because people can't leave people alone. We need to have one because we've taken away the option of not having one.

We've forced,laws,rules on ourselves. It would be impossible at this stage to make changes or go back.

 

[Demiurge]

Metal is an establishment plus depends on technoligical advancements.

If we did not have a 'Democracy' more than half the members here would be dead in two days. Democracy does not solve everything but it lowers death,crime a lot more than if there was no 'democracy'. We need a democracy because people can't leave people alone. We need to have one because we've taken away the option of not having one.

We've forced,laws,rules on ourselves. It would be impossible at this stage to make changes or go back.

You are a nonpareil political philosopher, a pillar of knowledge and lucidity. You, sir, are a beacon of light. What I like is how you've posited two possibilities: democracy and anarchism. Unenlightened persons might think there are, in fact, other political possibilities outside these two. Fortunately, you are here to set them straight.