Metal Elitism (read before locking)

[Manic Ferocity]

I know it's wishful thinking given the title of the thread but I'd like to keep this free of hostility if at all possible.

Elitism is a term thrown around to describe people who have close-minded taste. But what exactly does it mean to be an actual elitist (specifically in the genre of metal)? Should it be used to describe people who won't listen to anything but metal or people who have close-minded taste within metal?

I would say I fall under the latter category, give or take a few bands that might be considered inconsistant with that definition. My taste in metal is primarily rooted in old school and I don't like nu-metal, brutal/slam death metal, "flower" metal, metalcore, melodeath, and most modern sub-genres that've immerged in the past fifteen years or so. That being said, I like a lot of non-metal genres such as hardcore punk, underground hip hop, ambient, new wave, classical, etc.

Elitism, no matter how you define it, is a pretty derogatory term but I never really thought of it as inherently negative. What are your thoughts?

 

[Zephyrus]

Intra-metal elitism seems to be what's rampant here. I subscribe to it somewhat, but only because almost everything the "elites" on this forum like (I don't claim to be one of them) I end up liking as well, so I trust them when they say something's good. And that's fine, because this is, after all, a metal forum.

Again, I think terming these people pejoratively as elitists is overplayed. We are here because we like mostly stuff that most other people don't like or never heard of. That is exclusivity enough. I highly doubt there are people here who stop listening to a certain band because it all-of-a-sudden becomes universally popular (unless some change in a band's music was the sine qua non of their sudden popularity).

 

[ArneZ]

Elitist posers...

 

[JontRevolting]

The word 'Elitism' conjures negeative images imo.I too fall within the category of being close minded in terms of what i'll listen within the broarder Metal spectrum,(I preffer my metal nasty and mean,War or brutal BM mostly).I don't consider being particularly choosey in what a person chooses to listen to as being 'Elite'.Listening to the more obscure bands won't get you a job nor will it put you in the upper echelons of society.I have'nt brought alot of albums based on opinions of others here because I have collected all my albums since my very early teens(and have only been on this forum for a couple of years).For me it's been a journey from the more well known bands,Slayer,Kreator,Exodus ect. to the more darker underground bands ie,BM.As you say Zephyrous,most people have'nt even heard of these bands but that does'nt make us nor the music elite.It's interesting though how a band who has been labelled as 'Elite' can lose that status very quickly if the feeling,or sound has been lost on a new album or especially if they gain too many fans.The music might be labelled as 'Elite' but that can be fleeting and i'd be seriously embarrassed to be called 'Elite' as a fan.It's just music after all but it can have a profound effect on the listener and it can be a word(elite) used by the listener to convey the said profound effect it has had on them? I actually find it a bit embarassing these days using that word in conjuncture with music.

 

[Einherjar86]

I think of myself as elitist, but not within the genre of metal. Within the wide scope of "heavy metal," I find that I like artists from almost every genre (discounting a few fringe subgenres that I dislike purely on an aesthetic basis), and I at least maintain a certain respect for groups that I don't listen to as much (i.e. Darkthrone, Manilla Road, Judas Priest, Jag Panzer, etc.). I even own albums by these bands, although they don't receive as much spin time as many other bands I listen to.

Outside of metal, I'm terribly elitist. My tastes are narrow and I rarely am intrigued by suggestions from friends. I also am largely drawn to music that has little to no mainstream appeal (such as metal). I love the theatricality and dark, realistic brutality of artists like Jerome Reuter, David Eugene Edwards and Tom Waits rather than the mass appeal of your average rock n' roll band. I would say that I tolerate most traditional rock groups rather than go out of my way to listen to them (the exceptions being Floyd, Genesis and Tull).

That said, no: I don't think elitism is negative. If music doesn't interest me, I just don't listen to it.

 

[Dak]

If "music elitism" is bad, just listening to whatever is "popular" is much worse.

 

[sevag00]

Oh, the irony of the OP.

 

[damnromulans]

A metal elitist is IMO someone who falls into the second category you mentioned, ObscureInfinity. You can have someone who refuses to listen to anything other than metal but insists all music that falls under the "metal" genre label is equally great and wonderful simply because it's metal, even if it is widely considered terrible.

This conversation has a pretty high potential to get stupid really quickly since I'm sure there is someone out there who considers "refusing to listen to music you dislike" is "elitism" and is BADBADBAD and will post that in here.

Generally I am torn between thinking of "elitist" as a positive or a negative attribute. I'm not sure which is worse, snobs with unfounded biases or relativist hippies.

 

[Alex78]

Liking certain types of music / metal isn't really an achievement. It's a preference, nothing more.

And, let's face it, you will grow out of extreme metal when you get older anyways. Trust me.

 

[Crapples]

I've met plenty of old farts at gigs who are just as into metal now as they were "back in the day". That's just a dumb fucking comment tbh. If you're trolling I suggest you take up a new hobby.

 

[Lateralus14]

I'm pretty damn far from elitest since I listen to shit like Opeth still from time to time, but I've stopped being bothered by the elitest crowd here because, despite their occasionally annoying attitudes, I've started to generally agree with their tastes and creeping their last.fms and ryms has given me a lot of good shit .

 

[Saparmurat_Niyazov]

True, "elitism" around here is definitely within the realm of metal. I am the opposite of an elitist, as it should be apparent to anyone who has picked up on my personal tastes. As a matter of fact, I prefer mainstream metal acts, though I do value the elitist's point of view. It is because of the staunch underground enthusiasts on this forum I have discovered great bands like Tearstained, Demigod, Demilich, and others. However, I do find elitist flaming to be quite irritating.

 

[Draehl]

Sometimes I feel like one when I'm talking music with people I don't know terribly well. I'll mention bands that are considered mainstream on here and I'll get blank stares. I ask them what they're into and they mention your basic radio metal and I have to try really hard not to go off on a rant and look like a snob.

When it comes down to it there's two types of people: Those who want to search for better music and those who are content to be force fed music by the media. If that's elitist then sign me up.

 

[TheInsane]

It all comes down to what one considers to be elite. I know people from both camps mentioned. Just the other week a dude at work said something along the lines of:

"ABBA songs can be ok as long as its not ABBA actually pleying them. [mentions some band I cant remember] they play the songs twice as fast and with ridiculously complicated guitar solos".

This i the perfect axample of the type of person who think metal in itself is better (and more musical and technical) than any other music.

Then its the other type of person who is selective with what kind of metal he likes. I think this is only natural however in both cases people tend to become to focused on genres. How often have I not heard that people do not listen to any melodeath or any black metal or any death metal or any power metal etc. They dismiss whole genres which I think is stupid.

I am selective when it comes to what I listen to but I try to not limit myself genrewise. If there comes along a good band from a genre I dont usually appreciate I dont have a problem listening to them. The same thing goes for other genres outside of metal of course. I have no problem admitting to liking Garth Brooks, Amy MacDonald or anything else other metal heads might rather keep to themselves. What is good music is good music and it is indeed largely subjective.

 

[Doomguy]

I believe that a 'music elitist' believes his music taste is far more technically, emotionally or even generally superior to all other tastes and the elitist dismisses any other music. I don't know if thats right or not, but pleh.

 

[SouthernTrendkill]

I believe that a 'music elitist' believes his music taste is far more technically, emotionally or even generally superior to all other tastes and the elitist dismisses any other music. I don't know if thats right or not, but pleh.

YES! This is what I agree with. You can have any kind of taste you want. If you're humble about it, it's no problem. Elitism comes into play when you can't get it through your thick skull that your preference is nothing more than a mere preference and is not a shred more apt, learned or valid than other peoples'.

Me, I barely listen to anything anymore. The older I get, the pickier and pickier I get. I'm not a traditional elitist in that I don't draw my lines based on genre. Hell, some of my favorite music is bubblegum pop, not to mention nu metal and metalcore. But I'll tell you this much... there's only like 20 or 30 bands that I can even tolerate anymore. I have all the respect in the world for all the other great bands out there and I've listened to many of them extensively. But I'm not a dewy eyed young buck anymore. I like what I like and that's the end of it. I'm always on the look out for new things that I dig. But I only dig one or two bands from any particular style anymore. The rest can cease to exist for all I care.

 

[challenge_everything]

I disagree with that. I think the people on this forum have more evolved tastes in music than the average person. I think an ear for music is something that can be trained and developed, like reading. Anyone who thinks Shakespeare wasn't a great writer says that because they don't understand Shakespeare. It's not all subjective.

 

[SouthernTrendkill]

Yeuch. Academia mindset. Your opinion, my opinion, I guess we can only agree to disagree. The concept of somebody being "trained" to appreciate music makes me want to vomit in rage. The day music becomes a pursuit prescribed to the scholars is the day I melt my CD collection down for warmth (and toxic plastic fumes). In my view, there is a massive chasm between intellect and scholarly learning.

I mean, hey, I'm not some Oi! Punk. I'm all about the pretentious music, the vast artistic engagements, the high-minded, high-concept, high-art. But to tear down this amazingly personal thing that is music and suggest that certain people become endowed with superior insight through their inane dealings or the cultivation of a particular set of values, it goes against everything I love about music. Music is wholly subjective. There exists not an ounce of objectivity within its confines. If I told you WHY I love all of my favorite bands, you'd never agree with me even if we had the exact same top 100 favorites. In my world, Burzum is sentimental, the Pixies are anti-society, Sheryl Crow is self-satire. Just for starters.

Make no mistake, I have nothing against holding steadfastly to one's taste. I think people who like black metal, noise, grunge and classic rock have "better" taste than those who like modern rap, modern indie rock and modern country. But I can only accept such sentiments with a massive dose of self-awareness. I can't personally condone the idea of taking it above the personal level. I'd love to say "Anybody who doesn't understand why Neil Young is a genius just doesn't understand Neil Young," but that's... well, that's fucking retarded.

The thing is, there are a lot of reasons to not like Shakespeare. Not "understanding him" is merely one of them. Not everyone holds the same set of criteria in regards to what constitutes great writing. It's not merely an issue of "Hey, I like Anne Rice. She's way better than Shakespeare. Shakespeare is boring and hard to read." To put one's foot down and say that, in a realm as vast as art, everyone who questions Shakespeare's greatness is wrong, that's purely misguided and pretty laughable if you ask me.

To sum up my inane rambling.... We all have our favorite bands and our own particular taste. Most of us here have cultivated it over many years of tireless searching and concentrated artistic dissection. I'm proud to count myself among those ranks. But in my view, music appeals to higher sensibilities than any academia can unearth. Maybe it's just because I'm unbalanced and my taste changes every day. But I see the truest pursuit of music knowledge to be a wholly personal one, an exploration of what it means to yourself, regardless of whatever vain social perceptions regarding that music might be in place.

In that sense, I could never submit to the notion that the music world possesses a ruling class of those who have amassed a particular set of characteristics in their taste or view. Perception is immense and fluid. The specific reasons that make Shakespeare's writing an entry into the impeccable canon under your perception, those may be the exact same attributes which I consider Beckett or Mamet to employ. Our perception of the works themselves can easily diverge that greatly. That's how truly vast perception is, especially in regards to everything art-related. It's not just about whether we prefer cerebral music or chorusey music. There's an infinity of avenues for one's artistic perception to take. It's about the perception of every little detail, from who the artist is and what that means, to what their intentions were, to what position they hold in the world, all the way down to the music. And a million other things I lack the energy to directly predicate.

But we've had this debate over and over and over again on this board. I've had my say on the issue. Everybody else can say what they will. Cut me up all you want. I don't think I've anything else to say about it.

 

[VelociBrad]

Liking certain types of music / metal isn't really an achievement. It's a preference, nothing more.

And, let's face it, you will grow out of extreme metal when you get older anyways. Trust me.

Why do you think this? I'm 29 this year and just as into extreme metal as I was when I was 17-18. I know 40+ year old guys who are still into extreme metal, some more into it than I am.

Metal is not a "phase" for everybody. For some, sure, but to say everybody grows out of it at some point is arrogant and misinformed.

 

[JontRevolting]

Very well put man,you put alot of thought and effort into that and it's exactly right what you say,everyone is different and has a different perception on everything,music is no exception.Therefore there can and never will be a musical 'Elite'.Some (BM)bands used this term much in the same way the 'Pistols' flashed the swastika around...either to piss off ppl,get attention or for the shock factor.It's gay and has somehow made certain people believe they are 'Elite' for listening to certain bands.I thought this term had long passed but ppl still listen to technical death metal and opeth so what the fuck do i know.