Metal Elitism (read before locking)

[no country for old wainds]

obviously there's no such thing as 'objectively better' taste, that's a totally nonsensical concept which comes about because there's pretty obviously such things as more/less intelligent, experienced, nuanced, creative, thoughtful etcetc music and it follows that there's more intelligent, experienced, subtle, creative, thoughtful tastes as well. it is a mistake to align these things with some notion of 'objective worth', but it's understandably hard for most people to accept that the value of the things listed above is 100% subjective.

 

[Manic Ferocity]

Well yeah but I SUBJECTIVELY think that certain music sucks and a lot of modern metal is worse than the metal I listen to. I don't consider that a bad thing.

 

[King Dedede]

And, let's face it, you will grow out of extreme metal when you get older anyways. Trust me.

This is completely false. I've met a lot of people in their 40's and older who are into extreme metal; people who grew up with thrash in their late teens in the 1980's and continued listening to new bands today.

 

[JontRevolting]

Well yeah but I SUBJECTIVELY think that certain music sucks and a lot of modern metal is worse than the metal I listen to. I don't consider that a bad thing.

If that's an 'Elitist' then count me fucking in.
And as far as growing out of this music goes...fuck that,for some people it's a life long companion,i'm 33 and will still be listening to nutcase metal when i die...

 

[lusonius]

I think Elitists is like one person i've met.

He said Black Metal is the only music that should ever be heard, and pis**** on every other genre.

I hear much Black Metal to be honest, but i like hundreds of other genres.

 

[Manic Ferocity]

Liking certain types of music / metal isn't really an achievement. It's a preference, nothing more.

And, let's face it, you will grow out of extreme metal when you get older anyways. Trust me.

Um, no.

 

[WCannibal]

"Elitist" is just a cop-out someone makes when dealing with a person who has higher standards than they themselves have. That's just the way I see it anyways.

 

[Einherjar86]

I disagree with that. I think the people on this forum have more evolved tastes in music than the average person. I think an ear for music is something that can be trained and developed, like reading. Anyone who thinks Shakespeare wasn't a great writer says that because they don't understand Shakespeare. It's not all subjective.

A man after my own heart.

Personally, I've found this to be similar with me, as far as metal goes; it took over a year before I found I was able to listen to Burzum, and even more time to find that I actually appreciated it. That said, I still listen to music by bands that take less "training" (or none) to enjoy. I'll throw on Turisas and then listen to Negura Bunget, just as I can switch back and forth between Gladiator and No Country For Old Men or A Game of Thrones and Ulysses. Despite being a fan of the erudite and the academic, I still appreciate (and often enjoy) the lowly monuments of popular culture as well. This is the reason I don't consider myself an elitist.

The only area I would say I am is music (as a whole). I have wide tastes, but I think I'm very close-minded when it comes to trying out new bands or exploring suggestions. I really know what I like in music, and it's tough for me to branch out from that.

 

[Zephyrus]

I'm not an elitist because I like Dimmu Borgir.

 

[damnromulans]

"Elitist" is just a cop-out someone makes when dealing with a person who has higher standards than they themselves have. That's just the way I see it anyways.

But "higher standards" aren't always a good thing, ne?

 

[Alongside Death]

I'm not an elitist because I like Dimmu Borgir.

So it automatically excludes you for considering yourself in this "Elitism"?

I consider myself beign a metal elitist. I openly admit to others that metal is superior in a way that there are more things to grasp in this genre that in pop for instance. What I mean by that is that while others despise metal music for beign "one loud noise" I as a metalhead am able to "bridle" this sound and hear a harmonic display of instruments.

Besides, I am very proud of listening to metal, I really appreciate metal music for the possibility of bringing out so many emotions from it.

I only listen to metal, if I like something from other genre it is a very rare instance.

 

[damnromulans]

But you've never really listened to pop, if you did you'd know it's silly to make such a claim when "pop" encompasses everything from Roy Orbison to Lady GaGa

 

[Alongside Death]

But you wouldn't disagree with metal beign more complex would you? I mean good metal.

 

[Zephyrus]

So it automatically excludes you for considering yourself in this "Elitism"?

I consider myself beign a metal elitist. I openly admit to others that metal is superior in a way that there are more things to grasp in this genre that in pop for instance. What I mean by that is that while others despise metal music for beign "one loud noise" I as a metalhead am able to "bridle" this sound and hear a harmonic display of instruments.

Besides, I am very proud of listening to metal, I really appreciate metal music for the possibility of bringing out so many emotions from it.

I only listen to metal, if I like something from other genre it is a very rare instance.

There's justified elitism, which is exclusive to classical music and perhaps jazz, and then there's naive elitism, which asserts that rock n' roll-derived genres like metal are somehow superior to all over forms of music. People too often consider noncomformity a result of their "superiority" to what they perceive as mainstream and vulgar. That's more valid in intellectual matters like ethics and philosophy but music does not count. People often attach such philosophies and worldviews to music, but that is secondary to the music itself. A downright idiot could appreciate Deathspell Omega if he devotes enough time and effort into acclimatizing to Black Metal, and he can do so without comprehending nor even reading a single lyric by that band.

 

[Addo_Of_Nex]

There's justified elitism, which is exclusive to classical music and perhaps jazz, and then there's naive elitism, which asserts that rock n' roll-derived genres like metal are somehow superior to all over forms of music.

What distinguishes "justified" elitism within the realm of classical and jazz from naive elitism that runs rampant throughout the realm of extreme metal?

I might have just misread your post but I don't think that concept can be separated from music as much as you seem to be suggesting.

 

[Alongside Death]

There's justified elitism, which is exclusive to classical music and perhaps jazz, and then there's naive elitism, which asserts that rock n' roll-derived genres like metal are somehow superior to all over forms of music. People too often consider noncomformity a result of their "superiority" to what they perceive as mainstream and vulgar. That's more valid in intellectual matters like ethics and philosophy but music does not count. People often attach such philosophies and worldviews to music, but that is secondary to the music itself. A downright idiot could appreciate Deathspell Omega if he devotes enough time and effort into acclimatizing to Black Metal, and he can do so without comprehending nor even reading a single lyric by that band.

I don't despise in any way those two genres you pointed out in justified elitism, nor do I claim that they are inferior. To tell you the truth I myself enjoy some mainstream projects close to metal genre so it contradicts my "elitism". Come to think of it I exaggerated the term "elitist", sorry for that. I am very close minded when it comes to music and I am certain that metal will be the genre I will keep close to me for the rest of my life so I'm at least partially an "elitist".

 

[damnromulans]

How is it justified? Jazz is only 100 years old or so...

 

[damnromulans]

Also @Pharm, I would disagree with you on that and say that pop and metal are equally complex. It's a lot harder than it seems to write a catchy pop song that will stick around and still be interesting for any period of time.

 

[Zephyrus]

What distinguishes "justified" elitism within the realm of classical and jazz from naive elitism that runs rampant throughout the realm of extreme metal?

I might have just misread your post but I don't think that concept can be separated from music as much as you seem to be suggesting.

I'm not singling them out, but I feel that those two genres have more of a case to claim its true adherents as "justified elitists" because classical and jazz require a careful and dedicated study of music theory to fully appreciate, not just because they are more complex, but the methods of composition and performance demand careful instruction. That's not to say you can't enjoy Bach, Wagner and Miles Davis without music theory, but I think in order to be an "elitist" in those genres, you need that type of education.

Also, I think the "test of time" should be taken into account. There is a correlation between elitism and age of the music preferred.

In fact, I'd say that classical is like metal in that there are elitists within the genre. For example, my own mother only likes classical music written before 1759 (the year Bach died). That is somehow justified because Baroque music, being limited instrumentally, is able to be more complex in composition than a full-blown orchestra (which is why Wagner is a genius, being able to combine complexity and scale so well).

 

[Zephyrus]

Bear in mind this is just how I'm making sense of these things. I probably have a more tenuous grasp on the sociology of music than it appears (or not appears).