Metalcore

[melancio]

in hindsight, this is true.

Actually, it depends a lot...

 

[Hubster]

Not to mention horribly produced.

Ah.. but come now Moonlapse, you know as well as I why Black Metal as produced in such a fashion.

 

[illidurit]

the new summoning album wouldn't be nearly as epic if it was crystal clear

 

[derbeder]

Between The Buried And Me - lies a pair of my skintight jeans and white poofy sneakers. Fuck off.

LOL
I only listened to Alaska once and it didn't sound that bad. I wasn't intrigued enough to listen to them again, though. Might be about time to form a better opinion.

You want darkness? Then go and listen to Deathspell Omega. Black Metal and intelligently researched!!

People indeed should give Deathspell Omega a spin! Si Monumentum Requires, Circumspice has excellent moments - the Gregorian Chant works so well in the middle of the song 'Carnal Malefactor', for instance. I have gotten Kenose recently. The production on it is better than Si Monumentum, but the song structures are really weird. I haven't been able to get into it yet as I have into Si Monumentum. But I guess I will in the end, as I keep playing the first song over and over (such a cool 5 minute intro!). The lyrics on both albums are an interesting read, certainly much better than a good deal of satanic black metal lyrics out there (eg. Immortal). For instance:

Was there not an inconceivable loss of knowledge at Bethlehem?
Christ's abasement, His subjecting Himself to the laws of human birth
and growth and to the lowliness of fall human nature...
Did the Son remain the
transcendent Logos,
is there not a radical and fatal discontinuity between
the consciousness
of the transcendent Logos and the secular Jesus? (from Kenose part I)

This might not be everyone's cup of tea, but it works pretty well in the context of the album. There is certainly an idea behind it, however deep or shallow it ultimately is.

I wish I could get my hands on these albums on vinyl!! Kenose has a beautiful 40 page booklet that is also in the vinyl edition.

 

[derbeder]

Not to mention horribly produced.

Deathspell Omega's Kenose has a very clear production. Every instrument comes off very clear. I assume your remark is not directed to Deathspell Omega in particular but to the production values of most black metal albums.

And by the way, the horrible production cannot be replaced with a clear production on albums like Translyvanian Hunger, Hvis Lyset Tar Oss, Pure Holocaust, Nattens Madrigal or (more recently) Tentacles of Whorror. The production contributes greatly to the overall effect of these albums and helps make them what they are. Yes, the bad production idea has been overused and abused, but when it works, it works.

 

[RDreamer]

I haven't gotten into Deathspell Omega yet. A lot of Black Metal bands seem to simply blaspheme for the sake of it, mindlessly spewing out heresy for shock value. The lyrics you listed, derbeder, are well thought out and bring up some very interesting theological principles regarding the duality/dichotomy of Christ. As a Biblical scholar I could go on and on about this subject, but I won't here unless someone wants me to.

I would, however, love to know the name of that song so I can listen to the rest of it!

 

[Ermz]

Ah.. but come now Moonlapse, you know as well as I why Black Metal as produced in such a fashion.

I've never understood it personally, no. The first version of Emperor's 'In the Nightside eclipse' has production so horrendous that it overshadows all musical value that album has. Hearing it revamped was fantastic. The musical aspect of the album opened up. I don't particularily want to hear white noise when I put a CD in.

I'm sure Deathspell Omega are fantastic, but I haven't been able to get through the production element (Si Monumentum Requires Circumspice in question). It's not bad in the traditional black metal sense... it just sounds unprofessional. There's harmonic distortion on the drums, and you can audibly hear compressor pumping. Nothing meshes well. To me it just sounds plain shit.

 

[derbeder]

The production on Si Monumentum is poor, and the album would certainly be better with the sort of production on Kenose. Also, you are right about In the Nightside Eclipse - that album also needed clear production. It's just that there are some albums that actually benefit from muddy production in creating an atmosphere - it complements the music rather than "overshadowing" it, which is unfortunately what happened in the cases you mentioned.

 

[derbeder]

I haven't gotten into Deathspell Omega yet. A lot of Black Metal bands seem to simply blaspheme for the sake of it, mindlessly spewing out heresy for shock value. The lyrics you listed, derbeder, are well thought out and bring up some very interesting theological principles regarding the duality/dichotomy of Christ. As a Biblical scholar I could go on and on about this subject, but I won't here unless someone wants me to.

I would, however, love to know the name of that song so I can listen to the rest of it!

The song does not have a title. It's the first song on the album Kenose. And it would be cool if you explained some of your thoughts.

 

[Powers]

These pathetic bands try to glorify their Pepsi-fied version of darkness, where infact the darkest they get is the same shade of Kelly Osbournes fishnets (bad visualisation).

Its yet another attempt to capitalise on rock music and in 12 months time no one will take any notice of these kinds of bands, they will all fade and vanish because another fad will have replaced them.

What makes me laugh most of all is that these fucking idiots choose to be in these manufactured groups when they realise their popularity will be so short lived and that halfway through it all they will become the laughing stock of the musical public.

The eyeshadow, those fucking stupid tight jeans and pink fucking loafers, please - can none of these idiots realise how stupid they really look and sound?

Not to mention the band names:

Heaven Shall Burn - into what? do these idiots have any historical or book reading abilities for their teeenaged outlook at all?

As I Lay Dying - from what... your last breakup with the girl who happened to be your first pash? Fucking grow up.

Between The Buried And Me - lies a pair of my skintight jeans and white poofy sneakers. Fuck off.

You want darkness? Then go and listen to Deathspell Omega. Black Metal and intelligently researched!!

Respect. You're right I dislike the scene, but I dislike any scene cause I've never undestood why a person tatse in music should affect the way they dress or the places they go, or even their attitudes toward certain issues. As for the band names, I suppose they're a bit silly, but if of interest so far as I know As I Lay Dying took their name from the book.

 

[Brackofthemountain]

I went to Sounds of the Underground tour last year mainly for Opeth and SYL. The fact that most of those bands there were Metalcore... I hated it. I had to sit through damned irritating bands like Devildriver(they take their music way too seriously... the only one with talent in that group is the drummer), Norma Jean(Bible thumping christians), Throwdown(butchered a good Sepultura song), and many other lame bands.

Ozzfest was worse with bands like Gizmatchi, As I lay Dying, Trivium and Killswitch Engage.(I was mostly there for Rob Zombie, Mastadon and Arch Enemy).

One of the other things I've noticed is that Metalcore mostly stems from those random Pantera breakdowns. Ever notice a lot of people try to copy the end of Domination? It's really annoying and repetitive... and bands try to make entire songs off of a breakdown. It fucks with the mosh pits and gets assholes running through and tearing everything apart.

Lamb of God was the worst when I saw them on tour at SOTU. Their display of Mesa Boogie amps was right off stupid... taking up the entire back stage... 12 speakers high or so.(only Slayer can pull that off... the right way... with Marshall amps). As well as that, the mosh pit took up the space of what could have been a smaller venue. It at least spanned 100 feet wide and had an ISLAND of moshers in the middle... fucking lame.

 

[Hubster]

... horrible production cannot be replaced with a clear production on albums like Translyvanian Hunger, Hvis Lyset Tar Oss, Pure Holocaust, Nattens Madrigal or (more recently) Tentacles of Whorror. The production contributes greatly to the overall effect of these albums and helps make them what they are. Yes, the bad production idea has been overused and abused, but when it works, it works.

It took some "training" on my part to really appreciate the beauty of underproduction when my voyage into Black Metal began: I love crystalline production, clarity, depth, but the finality of appreciating underproduction came with understanding the (Black Metal) philosophy.

The anti-establishment and extremism of it warrants underproduction and re-establishes a sense of naturalism not found in modern production styles. The rawness of Black Metal is, to me, what raises it above many other styles of Metal out there (except for Iron Maiden) - it's VERY genuine and hides behind nothing.

Really - can you imagine Filosofem without fuzz and a broken microphone? Borknagars debut record without razorblade guitars to compliment Garms screams? Frost's icy rawness with ProTools instead of a crap budget?

No. they wouldnt be the same records, they wouldnt have the same landmark value for the canvas they paint is one of musical purity and honesty, a pure aggressive expression of dark philosophy and its ties with nature. Few genres of music can attest to this amazingly successful achievement.

One can even relate this back to Orchid and Morningrise. No disrespect to Dan, but both albums have a much lesser production value than what their later works would.

While many (including myself) love Still Life as their best work, I can't dispute that Orchid and Morningrise stand as Opeth's most honest works due to a lesser production result in the final released works.

I haven't gotten into Deathspell Omega yet. A lot of Black Metal bands seem to simply blaspheme for the sake of it, mindlessly spewing out heresy for shock value.

Unfortunately, you are correct here. But please - don't for an instant think that Black Metal has acquired a majority of such unintelligence.

The religious research of Deathspell Omega, imagination of Immortal (with their imaginary kindgom of Blashyrkh existing in polar winters filled with icebergs and glaciers), the science and physics of Borknagar and Vintersorg, the supreme romantic darkness of Emperor, or the well researched Viking mythological tones of Enslaved depict intelligence in songwriting lyrically and musically rarely seen in other genres of extreme music today.

PS - funny you should mention Kénôse, derbeder. I've been thrashing it out a lot lately!

 

[Led Opeth]

As well as that, the mosh pit took up the space of what could have been a smaller venue. It at least spanned 100 feet wide and had an ISLAND of moshers in the middle... fucking lame.

see, and if it was regular moshing it wouldnt be too bad and it would be fun, but its that gay spin kick shit that they do..i fucking hate all these scene trendsters...with their little highlights and feathered hair, suck my nads bitch, listen to some snoop and chill out (the core kids not you brack lol)

you make it seem like they should care. metalcore is just another genre. its no better or no worse. "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" <-one of my favorite quotes.

you don't like the music...but man, that doesn't make you better than those who do.

plus, its just music. if their music was killing people, that would be a good reason to despise and make fun of it.

yea but we are talking about the lack of talent these fuckwads have, its not really an opinion, its a fact lol

 

[Ermz]

Well, no. I'd be willing to bet that many of them have greater musical proficiency on their respective instruments than any one of us do. They are good musicians... it's just their choice of genre that's in question.

 

[Led Opeth]

ok, they are a waste of talent...thats a better comment lol

 

[Hubster]

Well, no. I'd be willing to bet that many of them have greater musical proficiency on their respective instruments than any one of us do. They are good musicians... it's just their choice of genre that's in question.

Well observed, and agreed upon. It doesn't eradicate that they are incredibly stupid for having chosen their pathetic path though. "You can give someone a Masters, but it doesn't make them intelligent".

On a sidenote - Moonlapse, you have an almost irritating habit of remaining insanely calm in discussion. Stop it.

 

[phagist_]

ahh, metalcore, mathcore... all these subgenres fucking confuse me.
I listen, if i like it i like it, if i dont; i dont.

 

[KjeXXXer]

Some of the bands are okay. Some just suck. It Dies Today, Throwdown, Norma Jean, and Atreyu are just a few that suck really bad.

Some Metalcore is okay though. As I Lay Dying can be pretty awesome sometimes. And Between The Buried And Me is more Progressive Death Metal, but you can still hear a bit of a metalcore influence in them..

I belive that Throwdown are Hardcore.

 

[cuntface]

Its the followers that are annoying. If they just expanded their horizons a little bit they could get into some more original sort of bands. But they love the tight clothes and fringes. If metal bands wore that sorta stuff they would love it instantly. Its all about the image.

HAHA did u see the fringe of doom at toms!

 

[cuntface]

ahh, metalcore, mathcore... all these subgenres fucking confuse me.
I listen, if i like it i like it, if i dont; i dont.

meh they all a bunch of cunts, a new band comes along has a slite differnt sound to the last and it starts a new genre so they make up a word and put core of then end