Mikaels interview kind of inspiret me to ask. Who's christian?

[pyr0rrzzz]

the holy books are too outdated to be honest, they make people conservative! We can't follow rules created thousands of years ago.

Yeah, most people need to interpret them in a more liberal way. They were written by people and therefore influenced by the time they lived in.

For my part I consider myself a christian in my way of life. Of course, if you live your life "right" has nothing to do with a simple label you choose.

 

[ozric]

here we go again, the 'ol flying spaghetti monster/teapot/whatever analogy.
1. there is no historical evidence for such a thing
2. i give up. the internet is not the place for these types of discussions.

and i'd like to see you come up with your own moral philosophy has both the longevity and practicality of christianity for example, then you can raise relativism up all you want, not that you were.

 

[pyr0rrzzz]

^ Haha, actually you can't discuss this sort of things with anybody anywhere in any form.

 

[ozric]

^ Haha, actually you can't discuss this sort of things with anybody anywhere in any form.

true that

 

[mexicola]

here we go again, the 'ol flying spaghetti monster/teapot/whatever analogy.
1. there is no historical evidence for such a thing
2. i give up. the internet is not the place for these types of discussions.

and i'd like to see you come up with your own moral philosophy has both the longevity and practicality of christianity for example, then you can raise relativism up all you want, not that you were.

Of course there is no evidence for a flying tea pot. That's the point.

My moral philosophy is that as long as you don't hurt anyone then do as you please. Of course the world isn't black or white so the bounderies are never totally clear.

 

[ozric]

^i get your point, my point is that comparing a teapot to a historical figure such as Jesus is absurd and patronising.
let's just get back to why we're really here, and that's the music.

 

[mexicola]

^i get your point, my point is that comparing a teapot to a historical figure such as Jesus is absurd and patronising.
let's just get back to why we're really here, and that's the music.

Jesus might have existed. That is not too hard for me to believe. I just don't believe he was a magician and the son of a god.

We are here for the music. Just not in this thread.
I don't mean to fight, I just get a bit excited when it comes to matters of religion.

 

[ozric]

what i meant was that this thread has no place in a music forum. i get a bit excited too haha. it's just that where i live, there are few religious people, and they get mistreated for no other reason than the negative, misinformed stereotypes of others. atheists on the other hand, at least the ones i know, are extremely judgemental and constantly put down all religion, yet they have very little knowledge of it. i wouldn't dare assume however that they reflect the atheist population because i know some legends of every kind.

 

[HemeHaci]

You can't be serious!
If I say there is a flying teapot floating around in space then why would be up to you to prove it doesn't exist?

If I go around yelling "It doesn't" then I should prove it. Simple as that..

Apart from that lowering the discussion to flying teapot is pathetic.

Existence/nonexistence of God cannot be proved. Get over with it, really.

 

[mexicola]

If I go around yelling "It doesn't" then I should prove it. Simple as that..

Apart from that lowering the discussion to flying teapot is pathetic.

Existence/nonexistence of God cannot be proved. Get over with it, really.

I don't feel I lowered the discussion. It's all about probability.
Being an atheist doesn't mean you can disprove the existence of gods.
It only means that the probability of a god(s) is as high as the probability of a floating tea pot in space.

Christians, muslims and jews are atheists when it comes to every other god that people have believed in throughout history.

 

[Nasty-Fire]

You simply can't accept any suggestions because of the only fact that the opposite hasn't been proved ! The current theory is in a state where it cannot be proved. This is why I will consider myself an Apatheist.

I know it's a belief from me, but I consider that any thesis should be proved by the ones who suggest it instead of the opposite. To me, it makes more sense, because it won't lead to any consequences due to the fact that the opposite hasn't been proved, which can/will eventually be proved. Unfortunately, being mostly skeptical, I don't think that anything can be proved, but we all know that there are choices to be made. We should only debate to know what would be better for us (to accomplish something) knowing that we'll never know, instead of thinking that there's a extremist and static solution to everything.

But I certainly agree with the fact that you can believe in lies (suggestions that aren't proved). Humans are professionnals at illusioning themselves, and it's understandable because of the complexity of our lives and the world. Umm and sorry to talk in the middle of a debate, but it was quite interesting to see your views. I think we should start a poll about the religions on this forum.

Since we are into religion and beliefs, I wanted to know your point of view on certain subjects that I had discussed with friends.
1. Do you believe in the "soul" ? Why ? How do you define this concept ?
2. Do you believe in the "fate" ? Why ? How do you define this concept ?
I don't believe in those, but I'm not totally sure if I am seeing them, these concepts, the right way. I'll show my reasons if someone wish to answer first.

@mexicola : Actually, being Atheist is to not believe in any sort of deities; there's not even probabilities; you totally neglect it but you sure can't prove what you say (which is why I don't consider myself this way). Therefore, you should look for another word that applies to your convictions. But I agree with the tea pot and the fact that it hadn't lowered the discussion.

 

[mexicola]

You simply can't accept any suggestions because of the only fact that the opposite hasn't been proved ! The current theory is in a state where it cannot be proved. This is why I will consider myself an Apatheist.

But I certainly agree with the fact that you can believe in lies. Humans are professionnals at illusioning themselves. Umm and sorry to talk in the middle of a debate, but it was quite interesting to see your views.

You use the theory of probability all the time to relate to the world.
You must be able to rule out a lot of things that just aren't probable.

I can't prove there isn't an invisible horse following me everywhere I go.
But I simply rule it out because no one can prove it and it isn't too probable..

I don't mean to sound arrogant for pointing out the logic in my thinking.

 

[mexicola]

@mexicola : Actually, being Atheist is to not believe in any sort of deities; there's not event probabilities. Therefore, you should look for another word that applies to your convictions. But I agree with the tea pot and the fact that it hadn't lowered the discussion.

It basically means godless or absence of belief in the existence of gods.
It's not a big deal for me to call myself anything really though.

 

[Nasty-Fire]

You use the theory of probability all the time to relate to the world.
You must be able to rule out a lot of things that just aren't probable.

I can't prove there isn't an invisible horse following me everywhere I go.
But I simply rule it out because no one can prove it and it isn't too probable..

I don't mean to sound arrogant for pointing out the logic in my thinking.

And I totally agree... this is one of the solution with the "nothing is true or false" theory, and one of the best ways to apply it in reality. But we really never know anyway, if we use probability that something happens, we might also find interesting what are the (approximative) probability that it doesn't. We can clearly conclude that anything could happen at anytime, but it's only probabilities that we can deduct from our normal lives. But it's only because we are not used that something happen that we believe that the probabilities are lower, and in the end, it could make sense. However, we totally don't know about it. Could we say that the theory of probabilities should apply to itself ? "It's probable that something is probable".

 

[hexwind]

What do you mean by religious things that can be proven with science?
The holy books are a testament of how people percieved the world in the old days. They tried to explain how the world worked by claiming a god did this and that. It was their try at "science" but without any facts.

Apparently you just have an idea about the holy books, never red all of them tho, did you?
Qur'an referred to some things that people couldn't understand, and later on, scientists (who most them weren't Muslims) discovered those things, not trying to prove Qur'an tho. like Oil, it was a whole description of it and then men discovered it, the Relativity theory explains the concept of how God creates us, decides our fates and deeds, then he judges us accordingly, the sun beats, the description of the creation process from sperm state to when we are in our mothers' wombs, fasting Ramadan helps your stomach to rest, recover and always be in good shape (apart from the moral things) . and a lot of other things that i can't remember right now actually you can check it out yourself if you doubt anything or I might be mistaken in some points. It's not only about scarring people and giving them orders and to kill people in the name of your God.

 

[HemeHaci]

^Also there is the "Mountains moving" phrase, Qur'an hinted at Earth revolving around itself long before it was discovered..

 

[hexwind]

I just don't believe he was a magician and the son of a god.

People in who lived in that era and in that area are well known of their Magical skills, it's something that you have to see right before your very eye to believe and i think it has to do with world's dimension and so on. and Son Of God, i don't believe such thing tbh, how can a divinity give birth to a human being??
And did Jesus Christ himself said that he is God's son? and why couldn't he save himself when i he was nailed to the cross using his magic skills ? I'm not attacking Christianity/Christians but i want to understand these things.
@NASTY-FIRE :
I can't personally identify "Soul", but about Fate, if i understand well its meaning in English, it's the script of your life, just like a movie scenario and everything is related to each other which makes everyone one's script networked and i would call this "Life", not the time span i spend alive tho. I would like to know what you think about it Nasty Fire.
It's really great to see what people think about this subject each time you come up with this, very interesting and very informative. this is NOT a shit thread

 

[hexwind]

^Also there is the "Mountains moving" phrase, Qur'an hinted at Earth revolving around itself long before it was discovered..

Ow i didn't know that actually !!
But thank you for reminding me of another thing, the doomsday's sign, in Qur'an God says that the sun will rise from the west and that's it not so far from happening (you should consider the different time landmark of God, Relativity theory). I was watching a documentary called Death Of the Sun (you can see it on youtube) that said, when the polar shift process is pulled off, the sun will rise from the west.
You Muslim HemeHaci?

 

[Savern]

People in who lived in that era and in that area are well known of their Magical skills, it's something that you have to see right before your very eye to believe and i think it has to do with world's dimension and so on. and Son Of God, i don't believe such thing tbh, how can a divinity give birth to a human being??
And did Jesus Christ himself said that he is God's son? and why couldn't he save himself when i he was nailed to the cross using his magic skills ? I'm not attacking Christianity/Christians but i want to understand these things.

Jesus remained pretty ambiguous throughout his ministry, using phrases like "son of Man" for himself. But he often referred to his "Father" when he was talking about God. Especially when you at his last words on the cross "Father, Father, why have you forsaken me?" (Eloi, Eloi; lema sabachtani) Think thats the hebrew...

And talking of divinity giving birth to humanity - as a muslim, surely you believe that we're created by God? In Jesus, we see God going one step further and putting himself on the Earth. The whole point was that God was sacrificing himself on the cross for humanity's sins. The trinity and Jesus' sacrifice are the hardest concepts in christianity to get hold of, so I understand its difficult to believe. For me though, Jesus' death is the single most moving and powerful experience I have ever read, and passages like John 3:16 have an incredable effect on me.

 

[HemeHaci]

Ow i didn't know that actually !!
But thank you for reminding me of another thing, the doomsday's sign, in Qur'an God says that the sun will rise from the west and that's it not so far from happening (you should consider the different time landmark of God, Relativity theory). I was watching a documentary called Death Of the Sun (you can see it on youtube) that said, when the polar shift process is pulled off, the sun will rise from the west.
You Muslim HemeHaci?

Of course, Hajji is the pilgrim that visited Mecca and Haci is the Turkish phonetic of it