Muslim Maniacs!

[Norsemaiden]

I would just like to apologise for my previous intense criticism of the Jews - it was too much and I should have been more considerate of how disturbing it is to those who don't think as I do. And it I agree it was a bit excessive. (This doesn't mean the subject is permanently off limits however.)

 

[Hubster]

I would just like to apologise for my previous intense criticism of the Jews - it was too much and I should have been more considerate of how disturbing it is to those who don't think as I do. And it I agree it was a bit excessive. (This doesn't mean the subject is permanently off limits however.)

Norsemaiden, while I understand what you were trying to say from a historical standpoint, I still feel that your criticism was not an unbiased one. It is this factor perhaps that was raising eyebrows.

You're very honourable for writing your comment quoted above though. I accept your apology, I'm sure the others do as well.

 

[Lord SteveO]

Yes good that you did apologise, but at the same time good on you for sticking to your beliefs in spite of the opposition.

 

[Neith]

THE EGYPTIAN PAPYRUS. This ancient documentof unknown age contains a cautionary phrase: "Beware of the Jews!" (Aegyptische Urkunden).

i don't mean to continue the heated debate of how bad/good the jews are and will take this back on topic. but firstly, the jews were slaves in egypt, which is a probable reason as to why "Beware of the Jews!" was written. if they were slaves they probably were plotting of ways to escape, which may lead to suspicion of them.

MANETHO Third c. B.C. Egyptian priest and historian.
Wrote that Jews were decendants of the hated Hyskos usurpers and that they had spread leprosy and venereal disease in Egypt. Maintained that Jews had been expelled for their power-grabbing.

even if the jews did spread leprosy so what? there wasn't much you could do about it at the time. christains also suffered from leprosy, and many of them suffered at the hands of fellow christians because of it. For example, there was a group of people known as the Cagoes (think i spelled that right) who are thought to be small in size (doors and windows were found in the region of France where they resided, which were small in stature compared to the average door). it was thought that these people suffered from leprosy, and there are historical documents telling of medical assessments of these people, some had leprosy, some did not. the point is, they were made outcasts from society, and were persecuted by the christians during the crusades, just as the cathars were, and just as everyone who wasnt a chistian was.

having read your quotes, many of them seem to be only opinion, and i personally think it is foolish to base an opinion on someone else' opinion. i realise, that this is what you believe, but it seems highly foolish. i have an opinion - Britney spears sucks, she makes a lot of money, we should avoid her. that doesnt mean anyone else should believe it. also, there are many white people in places of power, who are abusing it, and causing problems, but that doesnt mean that every white person is a bad person.

perhaps there could be some way to pacify radical Islam.., like, not systematically bombing/starving/enslaving people, letting them have their space, and not throwing fuel on every ideological fire that sparks over there?

Just to point out something which really annoys me. i realise that you may not be refering to Iraq here, but the reason so many people were starving in iraq is due to the fact there was not enough food to feed them. this is because the west put Saddam Hussein in power in iraq, and used him as a puppet. when he messed up and did something which was against the wishes of the west, they decided they wanted rid of him. the UN was forced by the west to put sanctions on Iraq, which resulted in trade be severely dimnished. which led to mass starvation. i realise that this is devoid of times etc, and is quite a short account, however, i already feel like some big headed fool who think she knows everything, and that is not was is intended, these are just my views in return. another point on the middle east which is sometimes brought up with regard to islam, that 'they abuse the women and treat them like shit' well, yeah, some do, as do many people all over the world, it is a fact of life, not a fact of islam. and many many women in countries such as iraq and iran were being educated in school, university and so on, and were dressing in a western way, however, when the west began to meddle frequently in these countries, the men became worried that they would lose their women to western men. as a result, many were taken out of school, and forced to dress in traditional garb.

having said all this (and i apologise again for sounding arrogant and posting such a huge post), i do think that the jews should stop getting special treatment because of the holocaust, they got a bloody country which didn't belong to them, is that not enough? they should stop blowing up the palestinians, although they seem just as bad these days. also, hamas is not so bad, yes they may commit terrorists attcks, but they have also been organising the feeding of many many orphans and so on. in this respect they remind me of the black panthers in 60s america, they looked fierce but they did a lot of beneficial things. one last thing, if G Bush is so adamant on "spreading democracy" to lands which dont want it, why does everyone have such a problem with dealing with hamas who won the 'democratic' election fair and sqaure?

few, done

 

[Norsemaiden]

Neith that is a good point about Hamas being democratically elected.
Regarding Muslim violence towards women - I think there is a chapter in the Koran saying that if a man's wife annoys him, he should flog her. I will try and find this later. There is a bit that says if a man wants a divorse he just has to say the words "I divorse you" three times and then it is legally done. But the woman doesn't get the same right.
I saw a programme about Ancient Egypt on History channel a few years ago, and it seems to be the opinion now that slaves did not build the pyramids. It was done by volunteers who considered it a privilege to be helping in such an important holy task.

Edit: Koran 4:34 "if you experience rebellion from the women, you shall first talk to them, then you may desert them in bed, then you may beat them".

"Contrary to popular beliefs, there were no slaves in Ancient Egypt". www.ancient-egypt.org/glossary/miscellaneous/slavery.html

 

[Neith]

Neith that is a good point about Hamas being democratically elected.
Regarding Muslim violence towards women - I think there is a chapter in the Koran saying that if a man's wife annoys him, he should flog her. I will try and find this later. There is a bit that says if a man wants a divorse he just has to say the words "I divorse you" three times and then it is legally done. But the woman doesn't get the same right.
I saw a programme about Ancient Egypt on History channel a few years ago, and it seems to be the opinion now that slaves did not build the pyramids. It was done by volunteers who considered it a privilege to be helping in such an important holy task.

"Contrary to popular beliefs, there were no slaves in Ancient Egypt". www.ancient-egypt.org/glossary/miscellaneous/slavery.html

All of the things i have ever read or seen about egypt has advocated that there were slaves, and that slaves did build the pyramids, but so did teams of workers who were not slaves, and as you say, were proud to do the work. Also, when the Hittites and etc were at war with egypt, many prisoners were kept alive to work as slaves, although a great deal were killed. not only is this my opinion, but there are depictions in tombs and pyramids showing the daily presence of slaves, and also expeditions into foreign countries to retrieve slaves, amongst other luxuries.

Edit: Koran 4:34 "if you experience rebellion from the women, you shall first talk to them, then you may desert them in bed, then you may beat them".

Well i do not see how saying "i divorce you" three times has any legal binding, and i know that at least in Turkey more and more women are getting divorces nowadays. the following was taken from www.Quran.org.uk

The Qur'an admonishes those men who oppress or ill-treat women:

O you who believe! You are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should you treat them with harshness, that you may take away part of the dowry you have given them - except when they have become guilty of open lewdness. On the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If you take a dislike to them, it may be that you dislike something and God will bring about through it a great deal of good. (4:19)
Considering the fact that before the advent of Islam the pagan Arabs used to bury their female children alive, make women dance naked in the vicinity of the Ka'ba during their annual fairs, and treat women as mere chattels and objects of sexual pleasure -- possessing no rights or position whatsoever, these teachings of the Noble Qur'an were revolutionary. Unlike other religions, which regarded women as being possessed of inherent sin and wickedness, and men as being possessed of inherent virtue and nobility, Islam regards men and women as being of the same essence created from a single soul. The Qur'an declares:

O mankind! Reverence your Guardian-Lord, who created you from a single person, created, of like nature, his mate, and from this pair scattered (like seeds) countless men and women. Reverence God, through Whom you demand your mutual (rights), and reverence the wombs (that bore you); for God ever watches over you. (4:1)


i forgot to point out that i think that much of the anger caused by the cartoons about Muhammed were not necessarily just because of the fact that they insulted him, but because they depicted him at all. Islam is different to christianity in that they do not have any pictures or statues, or any other such depictions of the prophet Muhammed or Allah, at all. These cartoons depicted him, and not only that but depicted him in a bad light.

To Mengeloid, i apologise, i did not read your posty correctly the first time, and my reply to it is irrelevent to what you meant.

 

[derek]

All of the things i have ever read or seen about egypt has advocated that there were slaves, and that slaves did build the pyramids, but so did teams of workers who were not slaves, and as you say, were proud to do the work. Also, when the Hittites and etc were at war with egypt, many prisoners were kept alive to work as slaves, although a great deal were killed. not only is this my opinion, but there are depictions in tombs and pyramids showing the daily presence of slaves, and also expeditions into foreign countries to retrieve slaves, amongst other luxuries.





Well i do not see how saying "i divorce you" three times has any legal binding, and i know that at least in Turkey more and more women are getting divorces nowadays. the following was taken from www.Quran.org.uk

The Qur'an admonishes those men who oppress or ill-treat women:

O you who believe! You are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should you treat them with harshness, that you may take away part of the dowry you have given them - except when they have become guilty of open lewdness. On the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If you take a dislike to them, it may be that you dislike something and God will bring about through it a great deal of good. (4:19)
Considering the fact that before the advent of Islam the pagan Arabs used to bury their female children alive, make women dance naked in the vicinity of the Ka'ba during their annual fairs, and treat women as mere chattels and objects of sexual pleasure -- possessing no rights or position whatsoever, these teachings of the Noble Qur'an were revolutionary. Unlike other religions, which regarded women as being possessed of inherent sin and wickedness, and men as being possessed of inherent virtue and nobility, Islam regards men and women as being of the same essence created from a single soul. The Qur'an declares:

O mankind! Reverence your Guardian-Lord, who created you from a single person, created, of like nature, his mate, and from this pair scattered (like seeds) countless men and women. Reverence God, through Whom you demand your mutual (rights), and reverence the wombs (that bore you); for God ever watches over you. (4:1)


i forgot to point out that i think that much of the anger caused by the cartoons about Muhammed were not necessarily just because of the fact that they insulted him, but because they depicted him at all. Islam is different to christianity in that they do not have any pictures or statues, or any other such depictions of the prophet Muhammed or Allah, at all. These cartoons depicted him, and not only that but depicted him in a bad light.

To Mengeloid, i apologise, i did not read your posty correctly the first time, and my reply to it is irrelevent to what you meant.

Christianity itself has quite a large internal conflict concerning images.

 

[Neith]

Christianity itself has quite a large internal conflict concerning images.

and yet there are statues everywhere of jesus, the 'virgin', and so on? that doesnt seem to make much sense to me, please explain more.

 

[Norsemaiden]

All of the things i have ever read or seen about egypt has advocated that there were slaves, and that slaves did build the pyramids, but so did teams of workers who were not slaves, and as you say, were proud to do the work. Also, when the Hittites and etc were at war with egypt, many prisoners were kept alive to work as slaves, although a great deal were killed. not only is this my opinion, but there are depictions in tombs and pyramids showing the daily presence of slaves, and also expeditions into foreign countries to retrieve slaves, amongst other luxuries.





Well i do not see how saying "i divorce you" three times has any legal binding, and i know that at least in Turkey more and more women are getting divorces nowadays. the following was taken from www.Quran.org.uk

The Qur'an admonishes those men who oppress or ill-treat women:

O you who believe! You are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should you treat them with harshness, that you may take away part of the dowry you have given them - except when they have become guilty of open lewdness. On the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If you take a dislike to them, it may be that you dislike something and God will bring about through it a great deal of good. (4:19)
Considering the fact that before the advent of Islam the pagan Arabs used to bury their female children alive, make women dance naked in the vicinity of the Ka'ba during their annual fairs, and treat women as mere chattels and objects of sexual pleasure -- possessing no rights or position whatsoever, these teachings of the Noble Qur'an were revolutionary. Unlike other religions, which regarded women as being possessed of inherent sin and wickedness, and men as being possessed of inherent virtue and nobility, Islam regards men and women as being of the same essence created from a single soul. The Qur'an declares:

O mankind! Reverence your Guardian-Lord, who created you from a single person, created, of like nature, his mate, and from this pair scattered (like seeds) countless men and women. Reverence God, through Whom you demand your mutual (rights), and reverence the wombs (that bore you); for God ever watches over you. (4:1)


i forgot to point out that i think that much of the anger caused by the cartoons about Muhammed were not necessarily just because of the fact that they insulted him, but because they depicted him at all. Islam is different to christianity in that they do not have any pictures or statues, or any other such depictions of the prophet Muhammed or Allah, at all. These cartoons depicted him, and not only that but depicted him in a bad light.

To Mengeloid, i apologise, i did not read your posty correctly the first time, and my reply to it is irrelevent to what you meant.

I don't mean to be insulting, but Sunday school biblical teachings from Ned Flanders are no match for the wealth of knowledge on the internet or people with degrees. Perhaps it is time to switch off the God channel.

Modern archaology is at odds with what is written in the Bible. The Hebrews were never enslaved in Egypt or Babylonia. There are now archeological records in these places. In fact the entire Bible is absolute fiction.

We're not decended from Adam and Eve. The Jews were never enslaved in Egypt. There was never a flood that covered the Earth. It IS possible that Pharoah Akhenaton invented monoetheism and he may have been Abraham. His priesthood was booted out into the desert and may have contributed to the early hebraic genepool. Moses may have been Pharoah Rameses. But as for crossing into Canaan - no evidence. The border of the Egyptians/Hittites was a military no go zone, so they couldn't leave Egypt.

"Hebrou" is Egyptian for "bandit". Hebrew history is just fiction that would have done credit to Hollywood scriptwriters like Spielberg. Even Israeli archaologists now say this. There was a scam a few years ago on fake Biblical artifacts in Israeli museums being manufactured by chemists in their garden sheds.

The Jews were not used as slaves - but they were a subject people, and were made to be guards in South Egypt.

There is archeological evidence that a Jewish military colony guarded the southern Nile region with Nubia, to prevent Black Africans from entering Egypt. A monument where Jews were based had the inscription: All black Africans from now until eternity may not pass northwards. It is this colony that supposedly took the Ark of the Covenant to Etheopia.

 

[speed]

I don't mean to be insulting, but Sunday school biblical teachings from Ned Flanders are no match for the wealth of knowledge on the internet or people with degrees. Perhaps it is time to switch off the God channel.

Modern archaology is at odds with what is written in the Bible. The Hebrews were never enslaved in Egypt or Babylonia. There are now archeological records in these places. In fact the entire Bible is absolute fiction.

We're not decended from Adam and Eve. The Jews were never enslaved in Egypt. There was never a flood that covered the Earth. It IS possible that Pharoah Akhenaton invented monoetheism and he may have been Abraham. His priesthood was booted out into the desert and may have contributed to the early hebraic genepool. Moses may have been Pharoah Rameses. But as for crossing into Canaan - no evidence. The border of the Egyptians/Hittites was a military no go zone, so they couldn't leave Egypt.

"Hebrou" is Egyptian for "bandit". Hebrew history is just fiction that would have done credit to Hollywood scriptwriters like Spielberg. Even Israeli archaologists now say this. There was a scam a few years ago on fake Biblical artifacts in Israeli museums being manufactured by chemists in their garden sheds.

The Jews were not used as slaves - but they were a subject people, and were made to be guards in South Egypt.

There is archeological evidence that a Jewish military colony guarded the southern Nile region with Nubia, to prevent Black Africans from entering Egypt. A monument where Jews were based had the inscription: All black Africans from now until eternity may not pass northwards. It is this colony that supposedly took the Ark of the Covenant to Etheopia.

Norsemaiden, you are starting this Jewish thing up again. Can you povide some documentation or support for these claims? Otherwise, based on your previous fantastic claims, everyone will regard this as possible nonsense.

 

[Norsemaiden]

Norsemaiden, you are starting this Jewish thing up again. Can you povide some documentation or support for these claims? Otherwise, based on your previous fantastic claims, everyone will regard this as possible nonsense.

Yes I have just been online looking for relevant sites to back me up. I am not sure what in particular sounds in need of evidence but here are two references: The fake biblical artifacts (I was spoilt for choice) www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6765427/ or just google fake biblical artifacts

"Jewish contingents were stationed at Elephantine" = try http://nefertiti.iwebland.com/timelines/topics/army.htm
Also, Dicovery Channel documentary "Myths of Mankind - Quest for the Ark of the Covenant."

Regarding Semna hieroglyphic inscriptions - "Inscriptions left here by Senusret III proclaim this the Egyptian frontier [previous to it moving hundreds of miles north, to Elephantine] north of which no Nubian could proceed by boat or on foot". from "Atlas of Ancient Archaology" by Jaquetta Hawkes.

See my next post for another...

 

[derek]

and yet there are statues everywhere of jesus, the 'virgin', and so on? that doesnt seem to make much sense to me, please explain more.

I should have said "had" quite a large internal conflict regarding images. Let me get though my rather busy weekend before I can reply fully!

 

[Norsemaiden]

Yes I have just been online looking for relevant sites to back me up. I am not sure what in particular sounds in need of evidence but here are two references: The fake biblical artifacts (I was spoilt for choice) www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6765427/ or just google fake biblical artifacts

"Jewish contingents were stationed at Elephantine" = try http://nefertiti.iwebland.com/timelines/topics/army.htm

See my next post for another...

Here I confess that I have got confused between Moses and Abraham and the best I can do to provide proof is to refer you to http://www.greatdreams.com/moses.htm

 

[Norsemaiden]

I should have said "had" quite a large internal conflict regarding images. Let me get though my rather busy weekend before I can reply fully!

Let me help! A lot of Protestant/evangelical churches in Britain don't allow any images or crosses in church as it counts as idolatry.
See this link for entertainment (especially the phallic cake) http://www.jesus-is-saviour.com/False Religions/Russian_Orthodox_idolatry.htm (sorry link doesn't work now so google: cross idolatry to find proof)

Puritans under Cromwell were as extreme as the Taliban is some ways, banning dancing etc www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyld=5063416(you'll have to search for: puritans banned dancing- I can't help it if the f***ing link failed

It's all Talmudic, about avoiding graven images http://www.crystalinks.com/tencommadments.html
(just after the list of commandments) Search for: graven images talmud, but this is elementary knowledge anyway- why the hell don't these links work now?

This is why so many ancient statues from Greece and Egypt were defaced, with noses, etc cut off. All art which represents a natural image should be destroyed according to this ideology, which regards it as idolatry, and it reveals the driving force behind abstract art.

Islam has the same objections to art (representations of nature) as being idolatrous.

 

[Norsemaiden]

Look I really wanted to put something on about how Spain is an apostate nation to Islam - but now I have to wait till tomorrow because everyone keeps banging on about Jews! Leave it will you?!

 

[Akirahito]

Neith that is a good point about Hamas being democratically elected.
Regarding Muslim violence towards women - I think there is a chapter in the Koran saying that if a man's wife annoys him, he should flog her. I will try and find this later. There is a bit that says if a man wants a divorse he just has to say the words "I divorse you" three times and then it is legally done. But the woman doesn't get the same right.
I saw a programme about Ancient Egypt on History channel a few years ago, and it seems to be the opinion now that slaves did not build the pyramids. It was done by volunteers who considered it a privilege to be helping in such an important holy task.

Edit: Koran 4:34 "if you experience rebellion from the women, you shall first talk to them, then you may desert them in bed, then you may beat them".

"Contrary to popular beliefs, there were no slaves in Ancient Egypt". www.ancient-egypt.org/glossary/miscellaneous/slavery.html

There are small African tribes that practice such chauvanistic ideals as well....but they keep to themselves and give us no grief so we don't give it a second thought. Muslims take their religion very seriously, it's a way of life that they adhere to. I'm relativist enough to believe that you cannot judge another's culture and it's beliefs based upon your own. It's not right. However, when another culture's beliefs infringe upon another culture's human rights, it becomes necessary to respond. Most cultures with any kind of power are guilty of that.

 

[EphelDuath]

"There is a bit that says if a man wants a divorse he just has to say the words "I divorse you" three times and then it is legally done. But the woman doesn't get the same right."

^^
heheheh.Nonsense,this law exists ethical in some regions of Arabia.But divorcing a woman in that way is not legal at all,even in iraq,iran,syria,in most parts of the middle east.

 

[LORD_RED_DRAGON]

I saw a programme about Ancient Egypt on History channel a few years ago, and it seems to be the opinion now that slaves did not build the pyramids. It was done by volunteers who considered it a privilege to be helping in such an important holy task.

the history show about pyramids that i saw said that the biblical descriptions of the Isrealites building the pyramids is a mathmatical impossibility

the gap of time between the Isrealite slaves being in Egypt and the pyramids being built was hundreds of thousands of years

but the way they said it i couln't figure out if they were saying that all the pyramids were already completed thousands of years before the Isrealites came or if they were saying that Moses parted the Red Sea thousands of years before the beginning of the construction of the pyramids...
so...did anyone else see this show or read any articles consistant with this???

 

[AsModEe]

thousands of years? I thought the pyramids were only 4000 years old

 

[Norsemaiden]

"There is a bit that says if a man wants a divorse he just has to say the words "I divorse you" three times and then it is legally done. But the woman doesn't get the same right."

^^
heheheh.Nonsense,this law exists ethical in some regions of Arabia.But divorcing a woman in that way is not legal at all,even in iraq,iran,syria,in most parts of the middle east.

Triple talaq. Wikepedia describes as a controversial Sunni Islamic procedure whereby a husband can divorce his wife by saying "talaq" to her three times. Lists 2 hadiths about it. Pakistan and Bangladesh are listed as still permitting this as law.

BEST SOURCE POSSIBLE TO FIND!!! The BBC,regarding the myth of egyptian slavery: http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/africa/features/storyofafrica/3chapter2.shtml