"My job is to communicate to the American people.....

[FretsAflame]

Man, Lynn and Dead Winter. A couple of history classes would do you a great deal of good. Seriously. And plus, Dead Winter, your use of semi-colons annoys me. You use them too much for them to have the great effect good writers use them for.


Kudos to Karmic.

And of course, it is easy to believe bullshit like the one you are quoting, Lynn. American history classes at high school level are a total bullshit. First, you not only not learn much factual stuff, but also history books are distorted to be pro-American and patriotic. Second, when they present the flip side of the coin, they generally present the one that is more generally plausible by the American public, not necessarily the one that is accurate.

I'm not blaming the American high school system. It does what it is supposed to do--create patriotic drones that will go to war if necessary and that will work hard for the country. It is really good education policy from the government's perspective. So if you actually want to know what happened, go to college and take more history classes, especially those research oriented.

An example of historical distortion is the WWII. In most high school level American history classes (not AP level ones through), the authors demonize Japan to the fullest. They spare some compassion here and there for the Japanese Intermittent Camps and for nukes, but they don't mention why Japan went to war and how America helped it. They don't present the internal Japanese politics in 30s, nor Japan's interests in Manchuria and not America's "Gentlemen's Agreement" for Japan (which said that Japan is entitled to an empire in East Asia as much as America is to one in the Caribbean). And they don't say that America was isolating itself from the world in the 20s in a way that Japan got an automatic green light for the things Roosevelt put an embargo on later. And they don't talk about the Japanese perception that America would go to war anyway (which was pretty accurate), so the attack on Pearl Harbor is not explained fully. I won't go into further details, I gotta eat breakfast, but I will tell you the most telling distorsion:
Not even once do they really talk about the strategic firebombings--which burnt alive in Tokyo in one night more than twice what the two nukes combined did. But, if you do it with napalm is ok, when you nuke them, it is not. Saves America the face of explaining that it actually meant to demoralize Japan through civilan murder (as McNamara explained in the 50s).

You know, when you liken someone to a white trash rapist you really just disqualify yourself from all intelligent discourse.

 

[EricT]

Not even once do they really talk about the strategic firebombings--which burnt alive in Tokyo in one night more than twice what the two nukes combined did. But, if you do it with napalm is ok, when you nuke them, it is not. Saves America the face of explaining that it actually meant to demoralize Japan through civilan murder (as McNamara explained in the 50s).

And if you knew your history, you'd be aware that the total number of deaths as a result of the nukes (we're not talking at the time they dropped, we're talking over the years) compared to the number of deaths of the firebombings of tokyo is an extremely inaccurate estimation due to the complete unwillingness of either side to give an accurate number for PR reasons. In the many years of post war analysis of the records and case studies of those said to be sick from atomic blasts, figured the best estimated numbers of deaths as a result of the bomb drops are somewhere in the range of 250,000 as of 1945, granted even that number is considered widely inaccurate, due to the years and years of shamefully bad record keeping. The same can be said for the record keeping of the tokyo bombings, however, most agree that the number lays somewhere between 100,000 and 150,000. All deaths "immediate".

So while there is no way to ever confirm what killed more, there's a reason that most basic history opt to stress the importance of the atomic drops over that of the firebombings... You should be able to figure it out.

I'll give you a hint, just in case: Humanity.

 

[EricT]

Also, LOL MUSLIMS.

 

[Swabs]

Lol religous people.


QUIET RIOT FUCKING RULE.

 

[Dead Winter]

Man, Lynn and Dead Winter. A couple of history classes would do you a great deal of good. Seriously. And plus, Dead Winter, your use of semi-colons annoys me. You use them too much for them to have the great effect good writers use them for.


Kudos to Karmic.

And of course, it is easy to believe bullshit like the one you are quoting, Lynn. American history classes at high school level are a total bullshit. First, you not only not learn much factual stuff, but also history books are distorted to be pro-American and patriotic. Second, when they present the flip side of the coin, they generally present the one that is more generally plausible by the American public, not necessarily the one that is accurate.

I'm not blaming the American high school system. It does what it is supposed to do--create patriotic drones that will go to war if necessary and that will work hard for the country. It is really good education policy from the government's perspective. So if you actually want to know what happened, go to college and take more history classes, especially those research oriented.

An example of historical distortion is the WWII. In most high school level American history classes (not AP level ones through), the authors demonize Japan to the fullest. They spare some compassion here and there for the Japanese Intermittent Camps and for nukes, but they don't mention why Japan went to war and how America helped it. They don't present the internal Japanese politics in 30s, nor Japan's interests in Manchuria and not America's "Gentlemen's Agreement" for Japan (which said that Japan is entitled to an empire in East Asia as much as America is to one in the Caribbean). And they don't say that America was isolating itself from the world in the 20s in a way that Japan got an automatic green light for the things Roosevelt put an embargo on later. And they don't talk about the Japanese perception that America would go to war anyway (which was pretty accurate), so the attack on Pearl Harbor is not explained fully. I won't go into further details, I gotta eat breakfast, but I will tell you the most telling distorsion:
Not even once do they really talk about the strategic firebombings--which burnt alive in Tokyo in one night more than twice what the two nukes combined did. But, if you do it with napalm is ok, when you nuke them, it is not. Saves America the face of explaining that it actually meant to demoralize Japan through civilan murder (as McNamara explained in the 50s).

My use of semicolons annoys you? Why, because I know how to use them?

My point has nothing to do with Muslims; it has everything to do with Islam. Do you get what I'm saying? I didn't say Muslims have no place in modern society...I said the Islamic faith has no place in modern society. Obviously the majority of Muslims are able to weed out the bullshit and lead normal, non-fundamentalist lives in modern societies, but that's because they themselves are modern people. That point just went over all your heads, which goes to show that even when I show restraint in my posts, none of you actually read them anyway.

And your tirade about Japan that you obviously just did a term paper on is all about the perception of America and what policies the US were under at the time. America was an isolationist because it had just seen dozens of thousands of its own citizens die in a world war and didn't want to get into another one. And you seem to forget the whole point about Japan attacking the US first, in any case.

I agree that the history books tend to tell history from a slant, but this shouldn't be news to you. You act like you just discovered a conspiracy. Welcome to America. I'm sure your home country of Romania has just been a beacon of hope for human rights and truthfulness in the past century. Yeah, ok.

 

[Dead Winter]

hahaha that has to be the worst bullshit I've ever read, lynn



Erm, why are you comparing the extreme side of the islamist movement to the "normal" christians? The majority of the muslims don't share these values. Plus, you do have your crazies as well.



This argument works in reverse as well!

Just for effect and in case you missed it in my first AND second post on this subject, again, I said nothing about Muslims in modern society, but ISLAM.

You see where I'm going with this? If there were a fundamentalist side to Christianity that was promoting beheadings, suicide bombings, and genitalia mutilations, I would be equally critical.

As idiotic as they are, I've never heard of southern Baptists sawing off the clitoris of their little girls.

 

[EricT]

As idiotic as they are, I've never heard of southern Baptists sawing off the clitoris of their little girls.

Nah... they just have family members rape their little girls.

 

[Dead Winter]

Yeah, instead of marrying off 12 year old girls to be severely beaten and raped by their husbands of three times as old as they.

 

[EricT]

As opposed to having to suffer through a life of wondering why your uncle is also your brother.

 

[Dead Winter]

Yes, but this is a funny stereotype, not a normal practice.

 

[EricT]

I've been to Georgia.

 

[Dead Winter]

 

[Superior]

Its more the Arab culture than Islam itself, when Islam started it was actually very progressive to womens rights, but I guess they didn't want to take it any further than that

 

[Dead Winter]

Yeah, because we're talking a millennia ago, right?

I don't understand the "Arab culture used to be the most advanced culture in the world" argument. Everyone who brings that argument up acts like it was like that in the 70's or something, that they had invented time travel during the Reagan years in the 80's or something. It's true they were the most technologically advanced...in the 14th century. But technology back then was not using your hand to wipe your ass (which they never caught on) and an abacus.

The fact remains that Arab culture is literally centuries behind the rest of the world and should be left to fend for itself if it refuses to move forward.

 

[flying_whale]

Actually, EricT, the number of the deaths in the nuke INCLUDE those who died of radiation afterwards for 20 years and the disfigured children. Nuke or not, Hiroshima and Nagasaki would have still been wiped out from the face of the Earth with napalm.

Also Dead Winter, do you know why Japan attacked the US first?

 

[CliffBurton]

Oil!

 

[Resonator]

You want to know why you're all equally justified yet not justified in saying this is wrong?

It's because of an illusion. Can you guess which one it is, knowing the definition of an illusion?

 

[Undefined]

Islam is not a religion, nor is it a cult. In its fullest form, it is a complete, total, 100% system of life.

Islam has religious, legal, political, economic, social, and military components. The religious component is a beard for all of the other components.

Islamization begins when there are sufficient Muslims in a country to agitate for their religious privileges.

When politically correct, tolerant, and culturally diverse societies agree to Muslim demands for their religious privileges, some of the other components tend to creep in as well.
Here's how it works.

As long as the Muslim population remains around or under 2% in any given country, they will be for the most part be regarded as a peace-loving minority, and not as a thr eat to other citizens. This is the case in:

United States -- Muslim 0.6%
Australia -- Muslim 1.5%
Canada -- Muslim 1.9%
China -- Muslim 1.8%
Italy -- Muslim 1.5%
Norway -- Muslim 1.8%

At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, often with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs. This is happening in:

Denmark -- Muslim 2%
Germany -- Muslim 3.7%
United Kingdom -- Muslim 2.7%
Spain -- Muslim 4%
Thailand -- Muslim 4.6%

From 5% on, they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population. For example, they will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature halal on their shelves -- along with threats for failure to comply. This is occurring in:

France -- Muslim 8%
Philippines -- Muslim 5%
Sweden -- Muslim 5%
Switzerland -- Muslim 4.3%
The Netherlands -- Muslim 5.5%
Trinidad & Tobago -- Muslim 5.8%

At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves (within their ghettos) under Sharia, the Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islamists is to establish Sharia law over the entire world.

When Muslims approach 10% of the population, they tend to increase lawlessness20as a means of complaint about their conditions. In Paris , we are already seeing car-burnings. Any non-Muslim action offends Islam, and results in uprisings and threats, such as in Amsterdam , with opposition to Mohammed cartoons and films about Islam. Such tensions are seen daily, particularly in Muslim sections, in:

Guyana -- Muslim 10%
India -- Muslim 13.4%
Israel -- Muslim 16%
Kenya -- Muslim 10%
Russia -- Muslim 15%

After reaching 20%, nations can expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings, and the burnings of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues, such as in:

Ethiopia -- Muslim 32.8%

At 40%, nations experience widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks, and ongoing militia warfare, such as in:

Bosnia -- Muslim 40%
Chad -- Muslim 53.1%
Lebanon -- Muslim 59.7%

From 60%, nations experience unfettered persecution of non-believers of all other religions (including non-conforming Muslims), sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon, and Jizya, the tax placed on infidels, such as in:

Albania -- Muslim 70%
Malaysia -- Muslim 60.4%
Qatar -- Muslim 77.5%
Sudan -- Muslim 70%

After 80%, expect daily intimidation and violent jihad, some State-run ethnic cleansing, and even some genocide, as these nations drive out the infidels, and move toward 100% Muslim, such as has been experienced and in some ways is on-going in:

Bangladesh -- Muslim 83%
Egypt -- Muslim 90%
Gaza -- Muslim 98.7%
Indonesia -- Muslim 86.1%
Iran -- Muslim 98%
Iraq -- Muslim 97%
Jordan -- Muslim 92%
Morocco -- Muslim 98.7%
Pakistan -- Muslim 97%
Palestine -- Muslim 99%
Syria - - Muslim 90%
Tajikistan -- Muslim 90%
Turkey -- Muslim 99.8%
United Arab Emirates -- Muslim 96%

100% will usher in the peace of 'Dar-es-Salaam' -- the Islamic House of Peace. Here there's supposed to be peace, because everybody is a Muslim, the Madrasses are the only schools, and the Koran is the only word, such as in:

Afghanistan -- Muslim 100%
Saudi Arabia -- Muslim 100%
Somalia -- Muslim 100%
Yemen -- Muslim 100%

Unfortunately, peace is never achieved, as in these 100% states the most radical Muslims intimidate and spew hatred, and satisfy their blood lust by killing less radical Muslims, for a variety of reasons.

'Before I was nine I had learned the basic canon of Arab life. It was me against my brother; me and my brother against our father; my family against my cousins and the clan; the clan against the tribe; the tribe against the world, and all of us against the infidel. -- Leon Uris, 'The Haj'

It is important to understand that in some countries, with well under 100% Muslim populations, such as France, the minority Muslim populations live in ghettos, within which they are 100% Muslim, and within which they live by Sharia Law. The national police do not even enter these ghettos. There are no national courts, nor schools, nor non-Muslim religious facilities. In such situations, Muslims do not integrate into the community at large. The children attend madrasses. They learn only the Koran. To even associate with an infidel is a crime punishable with death. Therefore, in some areas of certain nations, Muslim Imams and extremists exercise more power than the national average would indicate.

Today's 1.5 billion Muslims make up 22% of the world's population. But their birth rates dwarf the birth rates of Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, and all other believers. Muslims will exceed 50% of the world's population by the end of this century.

Adapted from Dr. Peter Hammond's book: Slavery, Terrorism and Islam: The Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat

I approve of this post!

Man, Lynn and Dead Winter. A couple of history classes would do you a great deal of good. Seriously. And plus, Dead Winter, your use of semi-colons annoys me. You use them too much for them to have the great effect good writers use them for.


Kudos to Karmic.

And of course, it is easy to believe bullshit like the one you are quoting, Lynn. American history classes at high school level are a total bullshit. First, you not only not learn much factual stuff, but also history books are distorted to be pro-American and patriotic. Second, when they present the flip side of the coin, they generally present the one that is more generally plausible by the American public, not necessarily the one that is accurate.

I'm not blaming the American high school system. It does what it is supposed to do--create patriotic drones that will go to war if necessary and that will work hard for the country. It is really good education policy from the government's perspective. So if you actually want to know what happened, go to college and take more history classes, especially those research oriented.

An example of historical distortion is the WWII. In most high school level American history classes (not AP level ones through), the authors demonize Japan to the fullest. They spare some compassion here and there for the Japanese Intermittent Camps and for nukes, but they don't mention why Japan went to war and how America helped it. They don't present the internal Japanese politics in 30s, nor Japan's interests in Manchuria and not America's "Gentlemen's Agreement" for Japan (which said that Japan is entitled to an empire in East Asia as much as America is to one in the Caribbean). And they don't say that America was isolating itself from the world in the 20s in a way that Japan got an automatic green light for the things Roosevelt put an embargo on later. And they don't talk about the Japanese perception that America would go to war anyway (which was pretty accurate), so the attack on Pearl Harbor is not explained fully. I won't go into further details, I gotta eat breakfast, but I will tell you the most telling distorsion:
Not even once do they really talk about the strategic firebombings--which burnt alive in Tokyo in one night more than twice what the two nukes combined did. But, if you do it with napalm is ok, when you nuke them, it is not. Saves America the face of explaining that it actually meant to demoralize Japan through civilan murder (as McNamara explained in the 50s).

I kind of approve of this post...

Would have had a similar reaction had it been a Rabbi beating pigs to death with sock full of gold nuggets.

Wtf

 

[Lunar Still]

I'm not blaming the American high school system. It does what it is supposed to do--create patriotic drones that will go to war if necessary and that will work hard for the country.

I'm sure the military would have much higher enlistment numbers if this were true.

 

[Karmic]

Just for effect and in case you missed it in my first AND second post on this subject, again, I said nothing about Muslims in modern society, but ISLAM.

You see where I'm going with this? If there were a fundamentalist side to Christianity that was promoting beheadings, suicide bombings, and genitalia mutilations, I would be equally critical.

As idiotic as they are, I've never heard of southern Baptists sawing off the clitoris of their little girls.

The problem in your original post still remains, that you compared an extreme side to the general side.
That, and it's still an extremist part of the islamists, not just islamists in general that all share that idea.

Just because one side is featured more in the media doesn't make the other side any less bad.

Oh and for the record, the genitalia mutilation thing is not a part of the Sharia law.