New Attack Attack album

[James Murphy]

Owen/James you guys should take your spat to private or email please, thanks!

pretty sure it ended about a page and a half ago, and was the most interesting, and relatively civil, discussion in the thread, barbed though it may have been. the rest of it amounted to just about everyone piling (mostly justifiably) on to Gareth. *shrugs*

 

[Harry Hughes]

No one here can bash Joey's work....He has the best production chops here and has more of a chance doing something with himself than anyone here.....Gareth or whatever his name is .....to even comment on joey's work is hilarious.......what the fuck has he even done? i'm glad that dude is banned, he can get really annoying....I'm not sucking dick here, just stating a few facts.

Best production chops here?
Hmm, I'd say Sneap and James Murphy still have better chops than him in that regard.
I'd also say that Sturgis no match for Andy Wallace, Chris Lord-Alge, David Bendeth, Daniel Bergstrand and Jens Bogren for mixing abilities either, and note most of the names I listed there are always top rate producers as well.
Hell, AFAIK, Bogren tracked, mixed, mastered and produced Watershed and to have been able to handle all those tasks and turn out, what IMO, is one of most awesome sounding records this decade is no easy feat.
AFAIK Sneap also did all production duties (mix, master, engineer, produce) for This Godless Endeavor, and I consider that to easily be in the top 10 best sounding productions this decade.
I mean, don't get me wrong, Sturgis is a bad muthafucker with a set of ears I could only dream for at this moment, but he still has many years before he joins the ranks of the best of the best (such as the ones I listed) and I'm sure if you asked himself what he thought, he'd agree that's not quite among the top of the heap yet.

 

[Line666]

Owen/James you guys should take your spat to private or email please, thanks!

That wasn't a spat, I was just keeping James on his toes

You wouldn't like me when I'm really angry

In all seriousness, we've traded comments a few times before now and it's never got to a personal level yet and there's never been any insults (or any real need for them), so I think its ok.

 

[Jevil]

I think he earned it, he`s 18 but acting 15 honestly, is ok to dislike AA or even bashing them can be funny, but bashing joey`s work is other thing.

+ 145,562

I don't like most of the bands mentioned on this forum, I hate COREish and all that US New "Metal" stuff, I'm more into old school, classic metal, power and eurometal, but I can appreciatte people's talent.
There are good musicians here even though i don't like their music.
And there is also many good amateur and pro AE's that works with disliking bands but I like their productions...
I don't like Attack Attack but Joey's work is great. He is a professional.

On the other hand, I hope is Gareth's banning is not perpetual.

 

[Ermz]

Bah, I really hate this bravado crap. 'You could never hope to be as good as *insert name* so don't dare criticize'. That's outright bullshit. That means it puts our work beyond reproach of 99.9% of those who ever listen to it. Be realistic. (This is mostly referring to something posted on a prior page).

Humorously enough, Gareth seems to be the only one in the thread who actually took an issue with Joey on the matter. The rest of us just seem to be content in acknowledging that this band are horrid, and the industry that sustains them is a crippled trainwreck that needs to die ASAP in order for us to get back to fostering the idea of IMPROVING UPON 2,000+ years of music, not regressing to the musical equivalent of New Moon.

 

[Soundlurker]

The existence of superficial music does not contradict the existence of intelligent/soulful/etc. music. Both types have been around thousands of years, you can't just make one type disappear. Even though in the classical period there was evidently a predominance of the latter type there undoubtedly was simpler music as well as more "vulgar" music. It will always be that way and only the amount of exposure each type gets will vary. It's only natural that with mass media and globalization the simpler/superficial music will get more exposure. We can criticize it all we want but it would only be a waste of time because no one would listen. A musical revolution driven by a handful of AEs is a Utopian idea. Once you realize and accept that it should be pretty obvious why most of us have a lot of respect for Joey. He knows what he's doing, he can do it and he does it perfectly.

 

[greyskull]

WOW! amazing what happens when you're busy at work... i saw the first page of this thread and thought..... this may not end well.

Here's my Take on the situation...
Whether you like Attack attack or not (i happen to prefer the welsh one, awesome band, and lovely people) There is no reason to start throwing shit at Joey.
When you Have bought your own house and a pro tools hd rig and are booked up til god knows when next year off your own back; then just maybe your opinion matters a little bit (but shouldn't involve insults).
Until then, quit giving shit to someone who does this for a living, and go back to your cracked cubase and waves bundle in your bedroom in your mums house.

 

[muckypup1]

+ 145,562

I don't like most of the bands mentioned on this forum, I hate COREish and all that US New "Metal" stuff, I'm more into old school, classic metal, power and eurometal, but I can appreciatte people's talent.
There are good musicians here even though i don't like their music.
And there is also many good amateur and pro AE's that works with disliking bands but I like their productions...
I don't like Attack Attack but Joey's work is great. He is a professional.

On the other hand, I hope is Gareth's banning is not perpetual.

I agree dude, I can't stand a lot of the bands who get called awesome on here, but if there's talent, there's talent.

 

[Ermz]

It's only natural that with mass media and globalization the simpler/superficial music will get more exposure.

But why is that? Why does that seem to be a point that we always concede? You only have to look at the state of the world as it is to know that catering to the simpletons isn't going to be self-sustaining forever. Fast food industries certainly aren't enhancing or furthering anything. The best crafted illustrated animation we have is still from early Disney. It seems that as time goes on all we are able to do is diverge from the purity of the original form and cheapen it for mass consumption. Why should this be acceptable?

Surely the labels are to blame largely for cheapening the intrinsic worth of music by cycling through 'flavor of the month' artists like they are disposable. Is it any wonder people feel entitled to download it all for free? Those running the industry build their careers on abusing their clients, yet when it's done to them, in turn, by their own consumers they cry foul, even though they established and consolidated the model of abuse themselves. It's irony at its best.

Positioning yourself as part of a mechanism that feeds upon naivete to gather income is all very good and capitalist, but at what point does that end and the artistry begin? The two are so intermingled that it's obvious many of us here have trouble reconciling the state of the industry as it is, and what we feel it should be. It seems to be almost universally conceded that the industry sucks, but there's nothing we can do about it. Why is that?

 

[Ermz]

When you Have bought your own house and a pro tools hd rig and are booked up til god knows when next year off your own back; then just maybe your opinion matters a little bit (but shouldn't involve insults).
Until then, quit giving shit to someone who does this for a living, and go back to your cracked cubase and waves bundle in your bedroom in your mums house.

This whole thing again... I just find it beyond belief that this reasoning even exists.

Does this mean I'm not allowed to criticize OSX or Windows unless I'm a computer programmer, or a systems engineer? What if a certain compressor I bought isn't giving me the desired results I wanted on lead vocals? Am I not allowed to tell people my thoughts unless I'm the technician who designed it?

For the record, I'm not criticizing Joey in this thread at all. It's more peoples' general reasoning that has me in disbelief (as always apparently). Just because I have no desire to criticize anything doesn't mean that others who are purely consumers aren't entitled to. When you release your work out there into the public domain, when it's possible to stream, watch, download, whatever, you have to account for this. As producers and engineers we provide a service, and that service is judged every single time we make a decision on anything. Whenever any of our clients talk to their friends, or whenever our peers or competitors assess it. That goes with the game. Nobody is beyond reproach.

 

[Melb_shredder]

Ermin I agree with you on that superficial industry post. Unfortunately, the way of meaningful musical is on the decline, mostly because of the labels themselves.

It's not often a large label will pick up an unsigned new band, despite their efforts and quality.

Psycroptic only just got signed to nuclear blast after 4 albums on a smaller label. Their music isnt the most commercially friendly, but after doing all the hard yards they finally got picked up, Nuclear blast had the easier job. Point, pick and approach with a contract.

Bands like Attack Attack have everything that sells. That gay ass emo hair cut, the cheesy keys, and whiny/ screams and the homo erotic dancing to go with it.

Can you guess why they got signed quickly and are already on to album 2?

Because the labels are the ones looking at them, the cash cows to further their millions. It used to be about the music. In the 80's and even the 90's when these labels were created. Those people put THEIR money into the label because they love the music, now it's whatever will make the quickest biggest return.

It's sad but true!

"It used to be about the music man" - Otto

 

[Ganks]

Ermin I agree with you on that superficial industry post. Unfortunately, the way of meaningful musical is on the decline, mostly because of the labels themselves.

It's not often a large label will pick up an unsigned new band, despite their efforts and quality.

Psycroptic only just got signed to nuclear blast after 4 albums on a smaller label. Their music isnt the most commercially friendly, but after doing all the hard yards they finally got picked up, Nuclear blast had the easier job. Point, pick and approach with a contract.

Bands like Attack Attack have everything that sells. That gay ass emo hair cut, the cheesy keys, and whiny/ screams and the homo erotic dancing to go with it.

Can you guess why they got signed quickly and are already on to album 2?

Because the labels are the ones looking at them, the cash cows to further their millions. It used to be about the music. In the 80's and even the 90's when these labels were created. Those people put THEIR money into the label because they love the music, now it's whatever will make the quickest biggest return.

It's sad but true!

"It used to be about the music man" - Otto

I don't understand why there is so much controversy over the "music industry".

Why do you get to say that bands like Attack Attack! are ruining music today? Just because you don't like the band, and just because they have "emo" hair cuts, and dance on stage doesn't mean that other people don't enjoy their music and that they're not creating success for themselves.

There aren't any rules in the music industry man.
There isn't a rule that says.. "n0 running man on stage, n00bzz!"


Let's take a look at this from a recording perspective:

Everyone knows that Protools is the "industry standard".

So engineer A may be using Protools in a $100k studio and making his clients VERY happy.

But engineer B may be using Reaper or Logic in his basement, and might be making his clients JUST as happy.

So just because you are into something else, or just because you don't agree, doesn't mean that you have to say that a particular genre is "ruining the music industry".

Just simply state that you don't like the music.
:/

 

[SocialNumb]

I don't like the music. Happy?

It's all about coke and pepsi, it's really that simple . . .

 

[Jevil]

Bands like Attack Attack have everything that sells. That gay ass emo hair cut, the cheesy keys, and whiny/ screams and the homo erotic dancing to go with it.

Nice descritpion, anyway If someone would asure me loads of money and I leaving my boring salesman job I would cut my hair like a gay emo, would play cheesy keys and do homo erotic dances.

It's all about coke and pepsi, it's really that simple . . .

Coca cola FTW!

 

[Nuno Filipe]

Gareth could have some relevant points but his way of expressing became a huge fails to his credibility. We can all express innumerable points of view without being agressive and without seem that the truth belongs exclusively to us. Arguments based on personal attacks just shows a huge immaturity. And that is sad.

 

[James Murphy]

Ermin, this "sorry state of affairs" you are describing in nothing new... it's been like this since the first music was ever marketed. if your theory were strictly true, and you're not just seeing status quo conditions through doomsday glasses to some degree, then the further back in time you looked, the less crap you'd find in music, but that's just not the case... you just know less of the crap that used to inundate the various music scenes in years past because you're too young and little of it stuck (though we are all most likely speaking primarily of the metal scene, it's equally true there)... and quite a lot of the crap that's faded out of general public memory seemed just as popular as the crap we have today, at the time.

you are outlining some doomsday scenario for quality music... but there's tons of quality music... and tons of crap, and it's always been thus. ignore the crap... that's all you have to do. [analogy]you are basically using saturday morning cartoons as a yardstick for the late-night dramatic programming here.... just stop watching the cartoons... maybe switch channels... and perhaps don't discount that some of the cartoons might be pretty damned cool in their own context.[/analogy]

and all the above doesn't even acknowledge the entirely relative nature of what constitutes crap vs. what will be considered classic in years to come.

sorry, this is not a personal attack... i'm just old enough to know that "the sad state of music today" is nothing new. same exact situation exists in cinema and literature too.... there's always, always, always more crap than gems.... and as the years pass it always, always, always seems like that particular point in time, whenever it is, that it's just gotten sooo bad.... then time passes, certain works become generally qualified classics and endure, and the rest fade from memory (and arguably some gems go unnoticed or fade from public consciousness too) ... and despite how many people at the time there were that thought things had gotten beyond redemption, the next generation will look back at that time as a golden era. wash, rinse, repeat.

not saying we may not be experiencing a spike... we may very well be.. but there have always been spikes of crap in the metal scene, and it's not a reason to necessarily extrapolate a linearly upward rising trend, proportionately.

it's very likely true that there are more bands pushing product currently, but that fact doesn't mean there's any less good music to be had out there that deserves your patronage... like everything else in this electronically barraged life we lead now in the 21st Century, you have to be discriminatory... which clearly you are, and that's great... but does the fact that you have to exercise more discrimination than you did in years past automatically mean music is going downhill? i don't think so... it simply means more shit artists are taking stabs at grabbing for your wallet. ignore them. vote with your dollar.

 

[Metaltastic]

I'd honestly rather listen to Attack Attack! than pretty much anything that was popular in the 50s!

 

[CatharsisStudios]

same

 

[Ganks]

I'd honestly rather listen to Attack Attack! than pretty much anything that was popular in the 50s!

+10,000

I would rather listen to Attack Attack! than most stuff that was popular in the 80s and 90s, even.

 

[egan.]

One thing I'll add to James' post is the opposite of the ability of time to erase the crap: the ability of older folks to forget that everything is new to 14 year olds. As we get older we've all heard the same ideas repeated tons of times but what we old timers perceive as recycled and cliche is brand new to the youth-- only modernized with the delivery, style and haircuts they relate to.
The other thing I'll add to James' post is that as I've grown older and I find that people really fail to understand that 99.9% of musicians are doing the best they can at what they want to do. It requires tons of work/luck/skill to succeed at something you are extremely passionate about-- let alone to successfully pull off the sell-out maneuver that so many people lament.