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Saparmurat_Niyazov
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The existence of Jesus is just like his "father": it can not be proven with 100% certainty if he existed or not.
Cronopio
Glorious Imperator
Dak
mentat
By discussing his actions we were already working from agreed terms of his existence. His existence would be a seperate discussion.
skeptik
Member
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If there was actually any contemporaneous evidence of his existence, then we could at least say that the Jesus of the Bible actually existed, sans magical powers. But all evidence that tells of his existence is decades posthumous at best, so the historicity of the character is very much under suspicion.
If he didn't, would it matter?
The idea has already spread like a virus.
Physical existence is over-rated IMHO.
S'what I'm sayin'.
@Cronopio: I hope you got the Blacklodge reference.
The idea has already spread like a virus.
Physical existence is over-rated IMHO.
S'what I'm sayin'.
@Cronopio: I hope you got the Blacklodge reference.
Vimana
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- Mar 2, 2007
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Jesus' existence isn't 100% proven, but analysis of the gospels shows that some parts are almost identical, which suggests that they came from one source (known by people as Q, who could've been Yeshua of Nazareth), so it's unlikely that people just made up this guy, but it's also not completely proven that he was real. Also, Yeshua wasn't exactly an uncommon name.
Anyways, on the original topic:
There obviously wasn't an internet back then, so unless something was written down, it wasn't recorded. I don't see how it would be impossible for news of Confucius' teachings to reach Israel, since there were trade routes that hit both places. It's definitely possible that one merchant said something about Confucianism to one merchant who said something to another who said something to another until it hit Israel. By the way, this had about two centuries to happen. Unless the parallels are glaring, one can only go on subtleties, which are more likely given the distance.
I'm not trying to invalidate Jesus' teachings by playing the whole "oh lol he copied them" card. I'm just suggesting the possibility that bits of Confucian thought may have sparked his ideas of reform.
I also think that the concept of the holy trinity could be modeled after the trimurti. For one thing, the trimurti predates it, secondly, trinity and trimurti are the same word in different languages, and it kind of makes sense when you line it up: Bhraman (the creator) = God (the father), Śiva (the destroyer/changer) = Jesus (the son, who did change things), Vishnu (the maintainer) = the holy spirit.
Anyways, on the original topic:
There obviously wasn't an internet back then, so unless something was written down, it wasn't recorded. I don't see how it would be impossible for news of Confucius' teachings to reach Israel, since there were trade routes that hit both places. It's definitely possible that one merchant said something about Confucianism to one merchant who said something to another who said something to another until it hit Israel. By the way, this had about two centuries to happen. Unless the parallels are glaring, one can only go on subtleties, which are more likely given the distance.
I'm not trying to invalidate Jesus' teachings by playing the whole "oh lol he copied them" card. I'm just suggesting the possibility that bits of Confucian thought may have sparked his ideas of reform.
I also think that the concept of the holy trinity could be modeled after the trimurti. For one thing, the trimurti predates it, secondly, trinity and trimurti are the same word in different languages, and it kind of makes sense when you line it up: Bhraman (the creator) = God (the father), Śiva (the destroyer/changer) = Jesus (the son, who did change things), Vishnu (the maintainer) = the holy spirit.
skeptik
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Vimana
Member
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Oh, I see what you mean. I thought for a second that if the suggestion was that it all came from one source, it detracts from the likelihood that the source could have been made up.
Yeah, obviously it could have been. The writers of the gospels did have motivation to do that. I mean, if they both wrote some of the same stuff and said "no, we didn't say it, Jesus did," then the blame could be shifted.
Yeah, obviously it could have been. The writers of the gospels did have motivation to do that. I mean, if they both wrote some of the same stuff and said "no, we didn't say it, Jesus did," then the blame could be shifted.
zabu of nΩd
Free Insultation
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Zephyrus
Tyrants and Slaves
So I've literally left a permanent mark on someone for the rest of his life. One of my Greek students commissioned me to translate a phrase into Latin so he could get it tattooed on his back. Here are the results.
The Latin is HOC SYMBOLVM SIT MONVMENTVM PECCATORVM QUAE PECCAVI ET NVMQVAM ME PATIATVR OBLIVISCARI
And that's my translation of "May this be a symbol to always remind me of the sins I've committed and can never let myself forget."
Go me.
The Latin is HOC SYMBOLVM SIT MONVMENTVM PECCATORVM QUAE PECCAVI ET NVMQVAM ME PATIATVR OBLIVISCARI
And that's my translation of "May this be a symbol to always remind me of the sins I've committed and can never let myself forget."
Go me.
Vimana
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After some research, it appears that the trimurti concept came about after Christianity, but I'm still a little suspicious. I'm pretty sure the gods Bhraman, Shiva, and Vishnu were around way before Christianity, and the website that talked about the trimurti coming after Christianity was Catholic, so I can't trust it too much.
I'm still wondering if anyone has done research on the Jesus/Confucius thing I brought up. I don't know ancient Greek or ancient Chinese, so as far as my analysis goes for finding similarities between their teachings, I can only go by English translations. I read a bunch of Confucius' proverbs yesterday and a lot were pretty similar to a lot of proverbs from Jesus. Again, I'm not saying this discredits Jesus, but I think that there may be some relation at play here since there was trade and Confucian teachings had two hundred years to reach Israel by word of mouth.
I'm still wondering if anyone has done research on the Jesus/Confucius thing I brought up. I don't know ancient Greek or ancient Chinese, so as far as my analysis goes for finding similarities between their teachings, I can only go by English translations. I read a bunch of Confucius' proverbs yesterday and a lot were pretty similar to a lot of proverbs from Jesus. Again, I'm not saying this discredits Jesus, but I think that there may be some relation at play here since there was trade and Confucian teachings had two hundred years to reach Israel by word of mouth.
Master_Yoda77
Juggalo
Zephyrus
Tyrants and Slaves
He's a freshman, and has many other tattoos besides that. It was his choice to permanently engrave his delusions on his corpse. I was just doing my job.
