Nile's style dying or still strong?

[Terminal Spirit Disease]

After a convo with JayKeely on the Iced Earth post about Nile's style, I decided to start a thread about it. Now I have been talkin about the overratedness of Nile, and JayKeely has brought some very good points up, so lets see what the rest of you think on this one.

One point made was about Niles vocals, I feel their style lacks a lot of variety and as a vocalist myself, find it very boring. Althougth their vocalists are very talented, the deep growl where you can't understnad a word they are saying died out a long time ago in my opinion. As it was mentioned that can be said about a lot of genres, which is very true, deathgrind, grindcore, goregrind, some melodic and thrash metal all these vocals where a lot of the time you cannot understand lyrics, although if you listen carefully you can understand them a lot of the time, but Nile's are more of a Will Rahmer style which to me died out in the mid 90's. Some bands still use it but most who do soon fail. I just feel Nile on a whole have become largely overrated and boring, I find nothing about them brutal at all, although a very talented bunch of guys who can play better than me any day of the week, I feel they need a bit more variety in their work.
One point I will make is this, Jay said about progressive and power being some of the only genres left where you can actually understand the lyrics, this is very incorrect in my opinion, although they are two of the biggest genres using clean vocals a lot of others have incorperated the clean vocals like, doom, some melodic death metal, black metal, most thrash metal bands are still using clean, even death metal and grindcore have started to produce bands using clean vocals, the list is endless. I would say about only 10% of the bands these days have vocals where you can't understand the lyrics I maybe wrong because being a vocalist, I am able to understand them a lot better than others.

Any how I have gone on long enough I'd like to see what others think, are Nile dying out or are they still up there with the best of death metal?

 

[JayKeeley]

Thanks for starting this new thread Terminal. I'll just recap what I was saying for this new discussion:

I would not consider myself a big fan of death metal. Indeed, most forms of 'extreme' metal are not my cup of tea, and I will admit that I prefer the likes of thrash and power metal bands (e.g. Sepultura and Blind Guardian).

Nile have taken me by surprise, however, and I find their brutality to be intense and yet majestic or even epic. Yes, I do find them brutal - this is obviously a personal opinion since I'm sure we can debate as to which other bands fit a more extreme mould.

I don't find their style to be outdated - on the contrary, I don't hear anyone that contributes to this particular scene as much as Nile. Not only are their lyrics intelligent, and storytelling, their music becomes hypnotic and filled with elements of mysticism. In fact, I would go so far as to say that Nile have an ambience that captures the listener in a trance-like state. Every instinct tells me to turn away, but I can't help but allow the music to take its course.

Of course this is all based on opinion, and I'm sure the debate can continue in more depth with others, but I can't agree with thinking that Nile are "out of date" especially when I actually believe that they are one of the more innovative bands of today. To explain my personal phenomena, I ranked In their Darkened Shrines as my favorite album of the year so far. To compare, the #2 and #3 spots were taken by Nocturnal Rites and Arcturus respectively. Quite a disparity I'm sure you'd agree, but this just further accentuates the accessibility that Nile has to fans of other (or all) genres.

Finally, the argument around clean vocals is again based on personal opinion. Just because you may be able to understand Tom Araya, Chuck Billy, or even Max Cavalera, I would not consider their vocals to be clean. I would, however, regard singers like Bruce Dickinson, Kai Hansen, or Tobias Sammett to use clean vocals.

JK.

 

[FailingAcension]

I love Nile. They are just my style. So in essence, I think they are stronger than ever.

 

[J.]

Being a fan of all things brutal, I can honestly say Nile are on a whole other echelon than most bands. THey get more intense with each album

Understanding the lyrics is overrated. That's what lyric sheets are for.

 

[J.]

I just read some of the Iced Earth thread where Terminal.. said that Nile's style is outdated. If you mean the style of brutal death metal, you might be correct, but then what style is not? What kind of music do you listen to? Power metal? That's the most outdated cheesy music ever. Iron Maiden was doing this stuff back in the 80's, way before brutal death. Don't even make me mention progressive music.

As far as the vocals, clean vocals are used way more than growls, so I don't comprehend how growls are more outdated. Who cares if you can't understand the singer? Metal, unlike pop, does not center around the vocalist. His voice is just another instrument.

You want to talk about a used up vocal style, check out the 67395749 Gothenburg bands.

 

[Terminal Spirit Disease]

whoa steady on Dreamlord, you appear to have taken the whole part about growls wrong, I'm not saying growls are out dated at all, without them we don't have music like death and black metal.
And yes brutal death metal is fastley becoming out dated, although varied brutalness is different, mixing brutal with say melodic gives it a whole new tone and to me, grabs my attention a lot more. Pure brutality is what is out dated, this is why bands like Mortician are not taken so seriously any more they have become more comical. Will Rahmer tried his vocals with Incantation back in 1990 for their demo he was soon replaced with a singer with more variation. Although Rahmer was good, Incantation would have never made it as far as they did with Rahmer on vocals.
You cannot compare death metal to power metal bands like Manowar maybe cheesey but their vocals and music has a huge amount of variation, same as most power metal and prog bands. The likes of Iron Maiden style music will never get old it is liked by billions, as much as I hate to repeat myself its because bands like Maiden used variation in their music and lyrics. Nile to me are no different to say Decapitated the vocals are one dimensional as is the music. Bands like Pig Destroyer went the same way although very talented vocalists and musicians they are short lived, due to lack of variation in their music. Bands like Pig Destroyer are out to be as extreme and as brutal as possible which is why they are short lived, Pig Destroyer is already forgotten, they released two fantastic albums but that was it people went on about em for a few months then boom! They were like who is "Pig Destroyer" Nile are going the same way, and I have to disagree with that epic comment again all opinion, but doom metal to me is epic not death metal, not saying it can't be though. I wouldn't say Nile are out of date yet but if their next album is like the past, they soon will be. Black Seeds being the most sucessful, its a classic phase, the band produce a debut album, people like it but always room for improvement, second usually being their finest work, third is normaly where people begin to get bored, and if they make it to the forth thats normaly the end. So many bands have gone that way and I can see Nile going there, if they make it past a 4th without changing half the members, I'll eat my words I can tell ya but personaly I can't see it.

 

[Sonnenritter]

There are many out there, including myself, that listen to bands just for that "brutal" sound. Take Hellnation for example. Many of their songs sound very similar, but the fact that the songs have a boot to the face brutality keeps me listening. Same thing with many bands like The Locust, Pig Destroyer, Charles Bronsen, etc...

As for Nile, they're what I look for in death metal. Technical, fast, and vocals that fit the style of music. I don't want Hansi Kursh singing on Unas Slayer of the Gods, nor would I want Jon Vesano on And Then There Was Silence.

 

[freakysean]

I will only say that I have enjoyed each nile cd and their live shows

 

[xenophobe]

And I thought I was bored.

What a dissection of Nile. I think their whole-hearted approach and interesting brutal-yet-melodic style surpass that of the old conventional, yet manage to capture a bit of that essence, while still retaining and exanding on what so many have thought to be a tiring and repetitive cliche... blah blah blah...

Sorry folks, Nile is just good music, either you'll like it, have no opinion or hate it, or various bits of all of that. Dissecting the stuff is pointless to me. I just listen to what I enjoy... I could really care less if "Brutal DM isn't being taken seriously anymore"...

Uh well, I still take it seriously. Disgorge, Iniquity, Cryptopsy, Suffocation, Malevolent Creation, Dying Fetus, Severed Savior, etc... Are all great bands that I love and will continue to do regardless of any trends or opinions others may have of them.

Sure, I like melodic too, and lately I've even been getting into the stale yet refreshing Gothenburg DM styles of Dark Tranquility, Arch Enemy and a host of others.... Hell, I'm totally into Tristania - World of Glass...

But I'm also into Classical, Brahms, Dvorak, Mendelssohn, etc... Pink Floyd, No Doubt, Peter Gabriel, Diana Krall, etc...

It's music, it's all good, and if you're not into it for the trend of it, music is timeless, just like all that old-school thrash that pretty much died out in the mid-nineties, or to the real punk that died out in the 80's, or the alternative that was replaced by nu-metal in the late 90's, or the metal that replaced the acid rock in the 70's. Yada Yada Yada...

Debating it just makes me cringe... okay, who is or isn't on the cutting edge, may not be doing something completely new and refreshing, rehashing a rehashed vocal style, etc... it means nothing to me.

You can debate the finer point's of one's preference to another's, but why don't you just put that CD into the player and enjoy it.... that's what it is meant for... I just don't get it.


Sorry.

 

[CorpseDust]

how can anyone say that man0war is better than nile
thats just hilarious

 

[Nephren-Ka]

Nile is my fav band. There complex, interesting & different, brutal, the vocals match the music...everything about them is great, it's music for the minority, not the sheep majority...each to their own I guess, as I find Iced Earth to be one of the most boring overated bands of all time, to me all their stuff is just colones of Metallica's And Justice For All album...

 

[MacMoney]

Unfortunately their kind of grind influenced death metal is still quite strong. The egyptian influences would bring a nice flavor in to their music if they were integrated in to the music better.

 

[JayKeeley]

Originally posted by xenophobe
And I thought I was bored.

What a dissection of Nile... blah blah blah...

Yada Yada Yada.....it means nothing to me.....

You can debate the finer point's of one's preference to another's, but why don't you just put that CD into the player and enjoy it.... that's what it is meant for...

I just don't get it.....

Sorry.

The 'debate' is not cringeful IMO- I simply pointed out that Nile make an impact on general metal fans who may not normally be into Death Metal. That alone speaks wonders.

Other death metal bands do little for me, so IMO Nile is the anomaly.

By the way, the reason the thread was segregated is because we didn't want the other Iced Earth discussion to go off-topic. It's just common courtesy, not something aimed at boring you specifically. Frankly, I'm surprised you even responded in such a lengthy manner if you find it so redundant.

 

[J.]

Originally posted by Terminal Spirit Disease
You cannot compare death metal to power metal bands like Manowar maybe cheesey but their vocals and music has a huge amount of variation, same as most power metal and prog bands. The likes of Iron Maiden style music will never get old it is liked by billions, as much as I hate to repeat myself its because bands like Maiden used variation in their music and lyrics. Nile to me are no different to say Decapitated the vocals are one dimensional as is the music.

DO you know that Nile has THREE different vocalist, all with their own identity?

I bet you don't, simply because once you hear brutal death vocals, you immediately pigeonhole them without properly hearing them.

Didn't Maiden basically release the same album like 7 times?

Nile are far better than Decapitated. That's like comparing Maiden to Hammerfall

 

[Nate The Great]

OK. It's time to bring the hammer down on some of you. Terminal Spirit Disease especially.

Please keep your posts a little shorter. I have ADD, and I'd like to be a part of this conversation.

 

[FailingAcension]

Yeah...some post were to long. I can only read half before I lose intrest.



Nile Rules.

 

[JayKeeley]

Originally posted by FailingAcension
Yeah...some post were to long. I can only read half before I lose intrest.



Nile Rules.

Long posts?! You should try Dickens.

Oh well, I suppose "Nile Rules" does sum it up, heh heh.

 

[MadTinus]

Originally posted by FailingAcension
Nile Rules.

Amen.

 

[Terminal Spirit Disease]

Well this topic is over, I refuse to talk to people who are going to be hostile, ignorant, selfish and just plain rude.
When you act like real metallers I will come back and talk to you, I opened this post up to every one and to keep the Iced Earth one on topic and some of you have just ruined it! All I can say is Nile fans or not you should be ashamed of yourself's, your a let down to music and the website.
On the other hand thank you to all who have responded in a mature way to the topic, it has be very challenging and some excellent comments have been put forward, which is what this board is about. Sorry I'm going to cut this one short, but ignorance is one thing I cannot stand specialy from people who claim to be metallers!
I will put an ending post in and npearce, you think maybe you could stop making comments about length of posts and grammer? its not the first time I've had comments from you.
Any way an ending statement is called for so here goes,
yes I did know Nile have three vocalists, hence why I always said "vocalists" read the posts more carefully before making such foolish and ignorant posts. If I was just to put a CD in my player and listen to it and enjoy it I would be one dimensional, unluckily for you I'm not, it appears you had nothing of intrest to add to the topic so why did you bother posting xenophobe? I like to break music down, I'm a musician I have to break my own music down and find the faults and I like to do it with other music because a lot of bands like feedback about people opinions specialy their fans. Nephren-Ka excellent point about people liking just brutal music, and yes there are I used to be one of them. Only since I became a vocalist, I changed around a little, I became a lot wiser to the faults with music, and became very bored with some bands as I discovered newer ones. I used to be a brutal vocalist, I still do use brutality just not in the sense that bands like Incantation, Nile, Mortician etc do. My earlier vocals were heavily Will Rahmer infulenced from his days with Incantation, but as I became bored with one tone vocals, so did a lot of others, I was getting feed back about lack of variation, tone, pronouciation of lyrics etc. One thing I don't like about extremely brutal bands is the continuous repeating riffs on the guitar and contiueous use of blast beats on the drums. This is why I listen to a lot of other bands out side the brutal range because their guitar playing is just so much better. They don't play the same riff over and over with an odd change, I mean look at Opeth they can play 10minute long songs and keep the whole song fresh, using huge amounts of variation in vocals, speed, switching from acoustic to heavy guitar playing natrualy, it makes the music more of an art. Its the same with a lot of black metal I used to like to its morely down to my tastes but i find a lot of people share my opinion, since I heard the atmosphereic, artful and pure breath taking music of Summoning I fastly became bored with bands like Emperor, Darkthrone, Dark Funeral etc. I found myself seeking more music to the quality of Summoning, but still listened to the likes of Mayhem for a change. To me there is just so much better out there than Nile, bands like Bolt Thrower for example they are more brutal than Nile, but use the same sort of vocals. This is all about opinion, opinions is what make us who we are and build our character and tastes in music, shame some of you made this so personal I would have liked to continue this because there was some excellent points made oh well thats the ignorance of the world for you.

 

[J.]

at least you rate Summoning. Excellent band