Nu-metal: I need your opinion!
- Thread starter JdeTheije
- Start date
Vitor
Unconventional [Listener]
Thank you for your reply's, it does seem hard to get a serious answer from some 
but those of you with a serious answer thank you!
Some of the 'problems' with Nu-metal and also reasons for it's fall you are giving are also some of my thoughts and presumptions, but these are mostly things that have been seen in metal before. I'm trying to uncover why in those early cases the metal scene did accept it and in the Nu-metal case didn't.
For example: the answer I hear alot is that Nu-metal is too commercial, but in the late '80's bands like Metallica were just as popular maybe even more popular. In 1989 metal accounted for over 40% of all record sales, this is a popularity Nu-metal has never seen. How come metal fans accepted the popularity of these early bands and see it as a problem when it comes to Nu-metal bands?
Also alot of you see the musical simplicity of Nu-metal as a problem and see it's musicians as inferior. While John Otto and Sam Rivers of Limp Bizkit are classically trained jazz musicians, Ryan Martinie of Mudvayne, also a classically trained Jazz bassist and there are more of these examples. The simple character of Nu-metal seems to be a choice rather than a short coming of it's musicians (ofcourse there are exceptions) Alot of the early metal bands are mostly self-taught musicians, and use fairly simple riffs, so why is this a problem when it comes to Nu-metal?
Could you help me shine a light on these matters?
but those of you with a serious answer thank you!Some of the 'problems' with Nu-metal and also reasons for it's fall you are giving are also some of my thoughts and presumptions, but these are mostly things that have been seen in metal before. I'm trying to uncover why in those early cases the metal scene did accept it and in the Nu-metal case didn't.
For example: the answer I hear alot is that Nu-metal is too commercial, but in the late '80's bands like Metallica were just as popular maybe even more popular. In 1989 metal accounted for over 40% of all record sales, this is a popularity Nu-metal has never seen. How come metal fans accepted the popularity of these early bands and see it as a problem when it comes to Nu-metal bands?
Also alot of you see the musical simplicity of Nu-metal as a problem and see it's musicians as inferior. While John Otto and Sam Rivers of Limp Bizkit are classically trained jazz musicians, Ryan Martinie of Mudvayne, also a classically trained Jazz bassist and there are more of these examples. The simple character of Nu-metal seems to be a choice rather than a short coming of it's musicians (ofcourse there are exceptions) Alot of the early metal bands are mostly self-taught musicians, and use fairly simple riffs, so why is this a problem when it comes to Nu-metal?
Could you help me shine a light on these matters?
Jean-Pierre
Son of The Bitch
1.) I dislike Nu-metal because…
Alternative music, at it's peak in the late-80's through the early 90's, began a fast decline due to popularization of the genre, giving birth to a more aggressive form of the current mainstream radia rock called Nu-Metal, which at times involved hip hop influence, very simplistic variations of easy thrash riffs and sometimes death metal riffs, and relied on very simplistic song structures. I'd say I dislike it because I find it mind numbingly boring and that it's just music made solely for marketing to young teens, with it's easy rhythmic bounce.
2.) I do/don’t think Nu-metal is a real sub-genre of Heavy metal because… It's more involved with the mid-late ninties pop radio distortion of 'alternative' than actual metal, which can be garnered from a listen to the guitar playing and vocal delivery.
3.) I think Nu-metal was so popular in the late ‘90’s because… it was certainly marketed well, with mtv play and image appeal (slipknot with their masks and whatnot), and as said before, there was a lack of severly aggressive and angry music at the time (in terms of the mainstream, of course).
4.) I think Nu-metal came to such a sudden downfall because… you can only rip off and severely simplify Faith No More and Helmet so many times.
5.) I think the Heavy metal scene never really accepted Nu-metal because… it had barely any tenets of heavy metal formula in any sort of style of the genre, the teen angst was there, but the music was not.
Alternative music, at it's peak in the late-80's through the early 90's, began a fast decline due to popularization of the genre, giving birth to a more aggressive form of the current mainstream radia rock called Nu-Metal, which at times involved hip hop influence, very simplistic variations of easy thrash riffs and sometimes death metal riffs, and relied on very simplistic song structures. I'd say I dislike it because I find it mind numbingly boring and that it's just music made solely for marketing to young teens, with it's easy rhythmic bounce.
2.) I do/don’t think Nu-metal is a real sub-genre of Heavy metal because… It's more involved with the mid-late ninties pop radio distortion of 'alternative' than actual metal, which can be garnered from a listen to the guitar playing and vocal delivery.
3.) I think Nu-metal was so popular in the late ‘90’s because… it was certainly marketed well, with mtv play and image appeal (slipknot with their masks and whatnot), and as said before, there was a lack of severly aggressive and angry music at the time (in terms of the mainstream, of course).
4.) I think Nu-metal came to such a sudden downfall because… you can only rip off and severely simplify Faith No More and Helmet so many times.
5.) I think the Heavy metal scene never really accepted Nu-metal because… it had barely any tenets of heavy metal formula in any sort of style of the genre, the teen angst was there, but the music was not.
And why do you think we hate Metallica? For exactly that. Most of us only listen to the first 3 or 4 albums of theirs.
If your figure of 40% is correct then that is a easy answer. Because Metal bands (non nu-metal) and albums far outnumbered how many Nu Metal bands and their albums. Only a small handful of Nu Metal bands sold alot. That would never compared to how many metal bands in the world there are and if you totalled their albums sales compared Nu Metal. Also metal albums including old ones sell year in and year out. For example Bathory's first like 5 albums. So this also accounts for more metal albums selling other then new albums.. you don't see that with Nu Metal. People bought their albums and I doubt you will ever see old Nu Metal albums selling year in and year out.
Not a problem with me. Only one person posted that I believe and he doesn't speak for everyone on this board. I have no problems with simplistic instrumentation in music. One of my favorite metal bands of all time Black Sabbath is quite simplistic in their music imo.
Good enough answers?
Source? What bands is this counting?
You are focusing on irrelevant factors like popularity and musicianship. Nu metal can only be considered metal if you are using the mainstream definition of it ("loud and heavy"). Nu metal is a *separate* scene that did not evolve out of metal and has little to no metal influence in it. It is collection of hard rock rap/funk/etc. hybrid bands that were only called metal by the rock media initially, and later by persons uneducated in the basic genealogical history of metal. Again, "Nu metal" isn't a clear stylistic derivation of any prior metal movement. No one has ever shown how it is. In fact, this thread illustrates well the kind of logic that makes people consider Nu metal to be metal. Idiotic logic like this:
Nikki said:
It should be clear to anyone with more than a basic knowledge of metal history why this "genre" doesn't belong stylistically, and why it is rejected by all but neophytes and casual fans of metal.
Xorv
Drug the Priest
1.) I like/dislike Nu-metal because...its instant gratification. Catchy, but the feel doesn't last long. Just like dragonforce, after a while you'll find yourself annoyed by this. And you will move on. Just like a trend. Simple music for simple minds.
2.) I do/dont think Nu-metal is a real sub-genre of Heavy metal because Maybe a form of hard rock. Dunno.
3.) I think Nu-metal was so populair in the late 90s because the 90's were crazy man! we all know clinton inhaled, haha!
4.) I think Nu-metal came to such a sudden downfall because Just like all trends. People find their new nitch and drop the old one.
5.) I think the Heavy metal scene never really accepted Nu-metal because Like I said in question 1. Simple music for simple minds. Metal is underground because its not simple. Its thought provoking. You have to listen again, and again until you understand. Pick apart each tempo, memorize each riff. Once you do, you have yourself a song that never gets annoying.
2.) I do/dont think Nu-metal is a real sub-genre of Heavy metal because Maybe a form of hard rock. Dunno.
3.) I think Nu-metal was so populair in the late 90s because the 90's were crazy man! we all know clinton inhaled, haha!
4.) I think Nu-metal came to such a sudden downfall because Just like all trends. People find their new nitch and drop the old one.
5.) I think the Heavy metal scene never really accepted Nu-metal because Like I said in question 1. Simple music for simple minds. Metal is underground because its not simple. Its thought provoking. You have to listen again, and again until you understand. Pick apart each tempo, memorize each riff. Once you do, you have yourself a song that never gets annoying.
ohiogrinder
New Metal Member
- Mar 15, 2006
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ohiogrinder
New Metal Member
- Mar 15, 2006
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grindcore and crossover were anti-establishment as well. how does that figure into your argument?
entanglement
Member
Seditious
GodSlayer
ohiogrinder
New Metal Member
- Mar 15, 2006
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I see you don't even know what b-boy means
amusing posts though
fuck you, I listened to rap as a kid.
Sabin Frost
Doom makes me happy
1.) I like/dislike Nu-metal because
I like some of the original artists in the scene because I can relate with the angst, anger etc. That reason is why the genre became so popular, but as the original listeners grew up and started hating their parents, the over-commercialisation it received in wake of its huge success and the millions of un-original copy-cat bands became a huge drag on the music scene.
2.) I do/dont think Nu-metal is a real sub-genre of Heavy metal because
Nu Metal is not a sub genre of metal, it has more in common with rock music. The instrumentation is mid-tempo along the lines of groove but there are no solos, very little variation in time signitures. It also carries none of metal's aesthetics.
3.) I think Nu-metal was so populair in the late 90s because
Breifly mentioned above, like Nirvana and many bands of the time, they appealed to the rebellious nature of teens, people could relate to the music. Nu Metal is more commerical then metal, radio thought great, here we have "metal" that casual listeners can tolerate, so we can put it on air, plus, capatilise on the huge popularity metal gained in the 80's.
4.) I think Nu-metal came to such a sudden downfall because
Nu Metal was a media-coined term, so none of the original artists never embraced it. Because so many artists were suddenly doing it, they all tried to avoid being like the others, being mainstream etc. to the point most of them became alternative bands, they saw it as a bad thing to be called Nu Metal.
5.) I think the Heavy metal scene never really accepted Nu-metal because
A combination of my answers to two and four.
I like some of the original artists in the scene because I can relate with the angst, anger etc. That reason is why the genre became so popular, but as the original listeners grew up and started hating their parents, the over-commercialisation it received in wake of its huge success and the millions of un-original copy-cat bands became a huge drag on the music scene.
2.) I do/dont think Nu-metal is a real sub-genre of Heavy metal because
Nu Metal is not a sub genre of metal, it has more in common with rock music. The instrumentation is mid-tempo along the lines of groove but there are no solos, very little variation in time signitures. It also carries none of metal's aesthetics.
3.) I think Nu-metal was so populair in the late 90s because
Breifly mentioned above, like Nirvana and many bands of the time, they appealed to the rebellious nature of teens, people could relate to the music. Nu Metal is more commerical then metal, radio thought great, here we have "metal" that casual listeners can tolerate, so we can put it on air, plus, capatilise on the huge popularity metal gained in the 80's.
4.) I think Nu-metal came to such a sudden downfall because
Nu Metal was a media-coined term, so none of the original artists never embraced it. Because so many artists were suddenly doing it, they all tried to avoid being like the others, being mainstream etc. to the point most of them became alternative bands, they saw it as a bad thing to be called Nu Metal.
5.) I think the Heavy metal scene never really accepted Nu-metal because
A combination of my answers to two and four.
Sabin Frost
Doom makes me happy
By the way, I got into heavy music through Nu Metal and I enjoyed it at the time. I still do not mind listening to Korn or Slipknot out of nostalgia or when I am in a certain mood. I think most of the people that grew up on it will still remember it but it will not hold the test of time.
Neither will Metalcore.
Neither will Metalcore.
Hatebreeder
Pizzicato Heartstrings
Grindcore has never been massively popular, and thus never succumbed to "mass-consumption syndrome", in which a large amount of people become interested and then quickly leave. Because there is a steady cycle of people becoming interested in grindcore, it has always maintained a steady underground following. Same goes for crossover.
The real question is how is nu metal "anti-establishment" in any major way? Aside from, say, Rage Against The Machine?
Sabin Frost
Doom makes me happy
It isn't mostly, its about personal problems and expressing them, however it is less about identity like rap, its more about a release, that was the original philosophy of bands like Slipknot which were created to get shit out that was eating them up inside.
Edit: Really the only anti-establisment Nu Metal acts were RaTM and System, though System are more alt metal as they dont have rapping.
Edit: Really the only anti-establisment Nu Metal acts were RaTM and System, though System are more alt metal as they dont have rapping.
I'm only focusing on what the info in the posted threads are providing me with.
But let me make a short summary to make sure we're on the same length.
So what I've heard so far is:
1. You all don't think Nu-metal has enough stylistic resemblances with other types of metal to be called a part of the metal genre.
(This is something I can work with, since this is researchable)
2. The popularity to many of you is also a problem, in the way that it attracts too much (negative) attention to the metal scene. (does this also mean that if the music had stayed 'underground' you would have appreciated it?)
(This is also something I can work with from a sub-cultural sociological point of view)
Am I right so far?
The simplicity doesn't seem to be a problem to many of you, but what then are, stylistically speaking, factors that make you dislike the music?
for instance someone can say 'I don't like heavy metal because for me it's too loud and too fast' then you judge the music by it's factual characteristics. If you say 'I don't like it because it's crap' or 'it's boring' then you are giving a subjective judgement and I'm afraid I can't work with that
Could you give me your opinion based on factual characteristics of the music?
I know I'm asking alot, but it's appreciated!
Xorv
Drug the Priest
you are asking alot, and I don't like people who ask too many question. Hmmm....TONY! Kill this guy!
