On Average Here, Blackwater Park Gets The Most Negative Comments - Why?

[Manbient]

i like it. my 2nd or 3rd favorite. I can't really decide...

and i don't think BWP is the most atmospheric whoever said that... are you SURE you've listened to Morningrise? that seems the uber-obvious choice as most atmospheric.

 

[yourdeadgroom]

I by no means mean to criticise your taste, because we wouldn't all be here if it wasn't for the music, but don't you believe in progression??

2 things:
1) Progression is overrated. If a band comes up with a good style, why should I want them to change? If Bolt Thrower, for example, made a drastic change to their sound, I would be gutted. I want Bolt Thrower to sound like Bolt Thrower. I don't really understand all those people that critscise bands that don't change.
2) If a band does change or develop it's approach, that's fine. Just don't expect me to like it I don't dislike BWP because it's different from the first couple, I just don't particularly like the songs, and there are many reasons why.

Do you mean to say that "The Drapery Falls" is not an amazing song to you?

I like the first 2 songs on BWP (I don't know if one of those is Drapery, I can never remember song titles ), the rest are ok, but don't really interest me (and even those first 2 are not songs I would go out of my way to listen to).

It's kinda hard for me to get specific when talking about BWP, because I haven't listened to it in ages and I have no motivation to do so (if I'm in the mood for Opeth, I'll listen to one of the first 3 albums), so it's not particularly fresh in my mind (and I didn't find it very memorable anyway, given that I don't care for it(and please, don't anyone say "well maybe you should listen to it now, you might like it", we all know that's not how it works )). I don't like it, end of story, I don't see that it's a big deal. I still rate Opeth in my top 10, I liked Deliverance, I just happen to not care for one particular album. There are many bands I can say that of, even My Dying Bride and Anathema, 2 of the bands I hold above every other.

 

[morganm]

-It seems disjointed. It feels like the band isn't playing together.
-The intertwining Apostle In Triumph-style guitars and the layered orchestral feeling that you got from the earlier albums disappeared.
-It had brilliant passages, but the album did not feeled like "one album" as much as a string of unrelated songs. I love listening to Morningrise and not realizing that it's a new song when a track ends.
-I don't like the "better" production of Steve Wilson.

 

[diso]

I genuinely believe that the reason bwp recieves the most negative comments, is because it has easily brought more fans into the fray than any other album and that bothers some people. These people (obviously idiots) are the same people who feel the need to bash it. The people who defend their opinion about disliking the album are obviously the ones who don't mindlessly bash it either. I fell in love with mayh as my first opeth experience, but right now i prefer bwp tomorrow it could be orchid, who knows.

Another matter that drives me nuts is progression. This seems like a double edged sword. Either you are static, or you "sellout" or change far too drastically and alienate all your fans. I think opeth have managed to change the perfect amount, they change enough on every release to keep me interested, yet don't change so much that I say wtf this isn't opeth, what is this shit! Think about a band like radiohead who must have a completely different fanbase for each album. Orchid is radically different from deliverance, yet I love the distinct opeth feeling of them both.

 

[Static]

Either you are static, or you "sellout"

I reckon. People who are not me are sellouts!


Anyways...BWP is hrrmmm, both good and bad. On one side of the coin it is EASILY their most musically mature effort to date. Even those who do not like it (such as YDG) have no choice but to admit this. It positively reeks of maturity, of a band that has refined their sound to a definable tee. The problem this creates is that the album is very predictable. It's OBVIOUS if you look at MAYH and Still Life that BWP was the type of thing that would follow, unlike with Deliverance, because that actually had enough changes in it to suprise me quite a bit. Also the production is lush and layered, but also too thick...someone else described it best when they said ,' it's a wall of noise'. Also, some of the songs such as Dirge For November and The Funeral Portrait seem completely forgettable to me.

However, even with all of these flaws, I still think it is a great album.

 

[Slynt]

I don't like BWP. I can't explain exactly why. It's just that, as opposed to the rest of their albums, BWP doesn't hold my attention. At all. I'm bored halfway through the first song. It has too little changes within the songs, and I don't like the sound, but I can't easily pinpoint the exact reasons.
I almost never listen to it anymore. I had given up hope for the next album because of this one, then 'Deliverance' comes and kicks ass, inciting the flames of fandom again in my heart. I can't wait to see them live in one month's time, though I must admit that it bothers me a little that the album that is best represented on their setlists is indeed 'BWP'.

 

[[0hr]Sunlapse]

It just doesn't have as much personality to me.

I like the energy and freshness of Orchid, I like the atmosphere of Morningrise and MAYH.

I like the story and emotion of Still Life.

I don't really see anything like that in BWP (or deliverance)

How do you not see any atmosphere in BWP? I think it has nearly infinite times the amount of atmosphere compared to their others.....

 

[[0hr]Sunlapse]

Everyone that says something negative about BWP, I can probably apply the same thing to My Arms, Your Hearse, my least favorite Opeth album..... of course I love them all.....

If you say the production is bad (or too good) then I can say the same thing for MAYH, I really think the production is horrible while BWP has perfect production I think..... I could go on saying the exact opposites of what negatives people think of BWP, Because I think that Blackwater Park is perfect....

 

[JesusChristPose]

I think BWP appears to get more negative comments than other Opeth cds because it is/was their latest and many of the the "old school" Opeth fans are loyal to one or another previous Opeth release. Many Opeth fans love Still Life. Other love MAYH (my personal favorite and by far)...even the older fans are faithful to the first two releases (these examples are all in general btw)....

And then along came BWP which was quite different from all the other releases - Steve Wilson influence - and for the most part, the loyalties to the early releases stuck...

Of course with the anticipation of the new releases, Deliverance/Damnation, those who basically passed on BWP, were hopeful for a return to the earlier formula, which then led to a mixture of feelings for Deliverance.

Make any sense?

 

[deathbearer]

Black Water Park has it's moments with good production and good harmonies "Bleak" and "BWP" being the standout tracks but the CD is far more predictable than the wonderful story line of MAYH and Morning Rise,Orchid's interweaving guitar harmonies.."Harvest" (off of BWP) is to predictable as is the radio edit of "The Darpery Falls"..Neither song is as good as "Benighted"..The vocals on BWP are amazing (as always), but Deliverance is heavier, less poppy, and more complex as is MAYH (my fave Opeth CD)..BWP was still one of the best metal CD's of 2001 but the atmoshphere IS different for better or for worse thann the previous efforts therefore alienating long time fans..I thnink Deliverance is better than BWP, more complex, heavier but the vocal harmonies (wich might turn some people off) in Bleak are just ammmaaazing..MAYH is my personal fave, an emotional roller coater that makes me cry..However, all Opeth Cd's are good, even if my freinds think that Opeth bore them to tears..BWP was simpler, with better production, better harmonies and vocals, poppier songwriting and somewhat predictalble in comparison to ealry works..BWP is STILL a brilliant CD just not my fave by Opeth..

 

[Scourge of Malice]

You guys think BWP is SIMPLE? Try playing those songs.. they are definitely not SIMPLE

 

[Fifth_Horseman]

Well, first of all, I like Blackwater Park quite alot. Maybe even more than Deliverance, but I'm still not quite sure.

Now I can't really pinpoint why this album feels different to me than the others... when you look at the songs alone, each of them is quite amazing. (although Harvest and Dirge For November don't move me that much).
But Blackwater Park is the only album that I can stop in the middle of it without me feeling like I just rammed a dagger in my heart.
It just has not that whole album-encompassing atmosphere like for example Still Life (which is my fav).
Maybe it's because Blackwater Park is more like a collection of songs to me while Still Life and MAYH are albums that just can't be separated into songs.

I agree that Blackwater Park has great production and great songs (holy fuck those solos in The Funeral Portrait are amazing!), but I don't put that album on as often as the others.

In the end it all comes down to the emotion brought by the album, and to me Blackwater Park does not give me as much emotion as most of the other Opeth albums. Flame me if you want to.
I still like it alot. BTW, The Drapery Falls kicks ass live!

 

[deathbearer]

In response to the previous post..It's hard to explain listen to Orchid or Morning Rise and relaize the atmsphere and complexity of the relases and compare themm to songs like "Harvest"...Harvest is fairly simple in comparison to many Opeth epics..Opeth ARE a progressive band, but many of my freinds felt that in parts BWP bored them..I liked most of the songs off of Black Water Park but a song like Harvest does not compare to the epic "Black Rose Immortal:..-l-

 

[Fifth_Horseman]

You guys think BWP is SIMPLE? Try playing those songs.. they are definitely not SIMPLE

Blackwater Park was the first electric Opeth song I learnt and it took me just one hour to memorize all the riffs in it... and it's a fucking 12 minute song.
Still a great one though, no offense intended. It rocks!

Dirge for November, Patterns in the Ivy and Harvest are also not the pure definition of complexity...

 

[no country for old wainds]

BWP is my least favourite, but I can see why other people love it. It just doesn't excite me as much as the others.

 

[J.]

It's depth amazes me. It's progession from previous albums amazes me.

Opeth amazes me.

Try finding Arcane Sun's self titled album. You think Opeth is amazing? Arcane Sun will blow you the fuck away.

 

[Greenwater_Pond]

I don't understand it either, because personally I see the first albums as far more basic and incomplete overall in terms of how the songs come together, but that's just my view. I think BWP had the best Opeth sound and the best production. Flame if you will, but I prefer how everything came together as a finished product on BWP as opposed to say Orchid or Morningrise.

 

[JesusChristPose]

Try finding Arcane Sun's self titled album. You think Opeth is amazing? Arcane Sun will blow you the fuck away.

Where can I hear a sample of this band? I am always interested in hearing new music of this genre.

 

[J.]

Where can I hear a sample of this band? I am always interested in hearing new music of this genre.

I found this mp3 on the Ars Metalli website. It's of extremely poor quality and since the label went under, it hasn't been improved. The bass and drums are drowned out, which sucks.

Also, there are reviews of Arcane Sun at The Metal Observer and Larm Reviews.

http://www.ars-metalli.de/sound/04%20-%20Longing%20for%20Edens%20rain.mp3

 

[Till Fjalls]

I don't really like BWP. I find certain riffs to be stellar, but overall, the songs, and the album as a whole don't really move me that much.

I think the main reason, is the above mentioned "maturity" idea. They've maybe hit a comfort zone in the writing, and the songs now seem less "journey-like" than their previous albums. The songs on BWP seem to take a certain feel/mood and play with it for a lot longer than other albums did. The Leper Affinity, Bleak, Dirge For November, all have more repetition than previous songs from previous albums, and the keep a stricter feel/atmosphere to the song, whereas older songs seemed more free and willing to break out of the mood established in the start of the song.

Also, the songwriting was less complex on BWP. I think they peaked with Still Life, and the vast layers and hidden intricacies hidden in the mix. I love that album. But with Steven wilsons production style, the big clear sound, is tough to achieve with so many layers, and I think that affected the way BWP came out. It feels more "American made" to me. The riffs are great, tight, and in your face, but that's becuase they've lost a lot of the majestic, dreamlike passages that use those crazy layered harmonies. It seems more straightforward to me in this respect. Very american, for lack of bewtter word. Oh well, you can't have your cake and eat it too....