On Average Here, Blackwater Park Gets The Most Negative Comments - Why?

[Hondo]

That seems pretty good. Steady doomy pace and nice melodies. I'll check it out more later.

Back to the topic, I think BWP has a less serious feel to it than the others. Just looking at the ones next to it, Still Life is a dark and compelling concept album, and while Deliverance has warm parts to it, it has a pretty grim and serious overall feeling. BWP has kind of a "we're going to rock you now" feel, mainly in songs like The Leper Affinity, The Funeral Portrait, and BWP. And Still Life has a ton of folk guitar stuff while BWP has almost none. Deliverance doesn't either, really, but it makes up for it with a really nice jazzy style to the quiet parts. I think some people saw in BWP that progression that many metal bands make towards being more radio-friendly.

I love the album, though. And I think Dirge For November is a fucking gem in their catalog that a lot of people sadly can't get into. The first half is amazing, and the heavy part makes the song. Just the way the guitars work together there, and then the ending.. I dunno. I've always loved that song.

 

[golgotha85]

BWP rules! It was the first Opeth album I heard, after which I purchased Morningrise. BWP blew me away, and let me tell you, if BWP blew me away, Morningrise blew me APART! I have a great love for BWP only because it led me to discover Morningrise, the greatest CD of all time! I LOVE the atmosphere and production on it, not to mention Steven Wilson's work!

 

[forest of october]

I believe in progression.
I believe that Opeth should experiment on their song writing style. You know, the one they've used since the beginning and on every album. Damnation with be refreshing because its so different. Opeth need to reinvent their metal sound also, not completely, stay Opeth, but refresh it a bit.

 

[Lina]

And SIMPLE? What the hell are you talking about? How is BWP more simple than other opeth albums?

The song structure is more traditional -- verse, chorus, verse, chorus.

As morganm said, it's an album of individual songs, the album doesn't carry the same theme throughout, which means it was easier to write. I think Bleak, Drapery Falls, and the title track are fantastic, but it's the first Opeth album (excluding Orchid) that I don't care for as a whole. It's disjointed.

They were rushed when they wrote it, as they were when writing Deliverance, so nothing about this should be surprising.

And personally, I don't much care for the Simon and Garfunkel quality that Steven Wilson brings to everything he touches.

I genuinely believe that the reason bwp recieves the most negative comments, is because it has easily brought more fans into the fray than any other album and that bothers some people. These people (obviously idiots) are the same people who feel the need to bash it.

No, it receives negative comments for the same reason that it brought more fans -- it's more easily digestible. Deliverance is the easiest to digest of all of them, so it's no surprise it won even more fans than BWP.

 

[yourdeadgroom]

I find certain riffs to be stellar, but overall, the songs, and the album as a whole don't really move me that much.

Yeah, I'd go along with that. Probably every song has something in it which is cool, it's just overall I find it to be lacking. It's like in the older albums, songs kinda just go along noramally for a while, and then drop in some awesome riff, and the good songs have several of these 'money' riffs in them, whereas given that BWP has a somewhat more predictable and tighter structure, there is less room for the money riffs and thus there are less of them (well, as defined by my taste for what I consider to be a cool riff ). I mean, that's the whole basis of Doom Metal right there, build up an atmosphere and then drop in some powerful melody/riff to create the impact/climax, which is what I'm into, so I think that's pretty much where my tastes lie and a reason why BWP doesn't appeal.

 

[Greenwater_Pond]

I'm sorry but BWP will never be radio friendly as long as pop music exists and music is driven by the American markets. Sure songs like harvest are acceptable according to easy listening standards, but it would only be on community radio or late night folk/blues/jazz shows....same goes for damnation when it comes out. I'd be the first to be out telling everyone "I told you so" if metal like Opeth was being played in regular rotation on large radio stations, but alas it never will be, and thus, I just simply can not agree with that statement about the overall content of BWP being radio friendly.

Geez you people are just really pushing my buttons today :Shedevil:

 

[Ghost Tears]

This is just my oppion but i believe when bands release new albums if it doesnt sound like what they expected it to they scream sell out or this sucks and various other things of that nature.

 

[MetalManCPA]

If I pull various ideas out of each of the above posts from those who think Blackwater Park doesn't quite cut the mustard is this - I feel those people believe it is the Opeth album that has moved them closer to that "mainstream" all seem to fear.

An album does not have to be one idea, one concept. Some bands chose this path, others don't. What makes Opeth more special than most bands to me is each song stands on its own - and a main reason for this is the track lengths. I can spend 10+ minutes being engrossed in one song, as opposed to two or three from the mainstream sound. I personally don't think a purely cohesive album is any better than eight magnificant stand alone tracks.

I can listen to BWP over and over, and I hear nothing hidden in the music that leads me to believe there was any purpose by Opeth in attempting to gain a larger following. Up to that point, they had put out four phenominal metal albums, and it's obvious that in the underground, they are known and revered.

When I hear the talk of simpler structure of BWP, I chuckle. I listen to their earlier works, and then BWP, and I hear quite the opposite. Sure - The Funeral Portrait may not have constant shifting and changing, but as a metal song, it practically blows away the competition. The Drapery Falls and Bleak - those songs are ten minutes each of majestry.

I'm not attempting to sway people to BWP, for the beauty of music is in the individual taste. I just fear that some will turn on Opeth just because more people are getting into them. I certainly hope there isn't a hint of selfishness in people, afraid that they may become "big" and don't want to share them. And based on the concert I saw, they are gaining quite a following, and beginning to climb out of the cellar of obscurity. Sure, you and I have known them for quite a while, but it's taken six albums for others to hear them for the first time.

Again - all of the above is just my opinion.

 

[squeegee your third eye]

BWP, on the one hand, is simpler in that they don't quite as frequently switch back and forth between electric and acoustic, shift tempos, alter feel, toss in random ideas, but when they do, the segues are smoother, they flow and make more sense musically. Which is more "complex"? To shift and change in a sudden and arbitrary manner, or flow naturally in and out? I get lost in the journey of each BWP song.

 

[blueskytheory]

BWP is not more mature, lol. What you people call atmosphere and "dense" sound quality is just studio tricks and bar chords. The chord-based riffage is not nearly as interesting as the harmonies of previous works. Lina is also right that its structurally more boring. Its a blase album by opeth standards, and any other standards worth having.

that said, i still like BWP, it has its moments (leper affinity has good passages, bleak too, and drapery falls and harvest are effective in their simplicity and "atmosphere"). ive found its really good music to put on when im doing something else... like driving, biking, hiking, working.

BWP doesnt get dissed for being more "mainstream"-- thats a straw man argument set up by BWP fanboys. I've never seen an opeth fan once in my life say "I don't like BWP because it is more mainstream." (unless they meant mainstream in a musical, structural way-- which would be true).

 

[icedsymphony]

Intellectually speaking, I worship all their shit! Equally. I can't say that for any band I have worshipped before. The ratio of flaws that I can detect( from a mere fans point of view) are inconsequential and meaningless to even mention.

 

[DarkHawk]

BWP is my least favorite Opeth album. Why? I dont know why exactly. I like most of the songs, but I just cant really get into it like Im into the others. I have listened to it many, many times, too. Its still a great album, but not my cup of Opeth tea.

 

[justus x]

The short answer: Blackwater Park is a highly polished bundle of mediocrity and predictability.

Some rambling, potentially relevant comments: The above should certainly be absorbed with the disclaimer in mind that it applies when judging against other Opeth albums. Standing on its own, it is a good album, nothing much to complain about, but it pales in comparison. And then people go on and on about how good the production is. Deliverance was well-produced. Blackwater Park was just extremely over-produced. My opinion, take it as you wish.

 

[Timmy]

Simpler songs aren't necessarily bad. I love the two simplest songs off BWP... Harvest and Dirge for November. Harvest just has a great atmosphere.. just sounds so ... natural. And Dirge for Novermber, just totally bleak (haha.. no pun intended) and emotional. Theres the quiet, mournful clean guitar and singing. Then the huge raging wall of sound hits you. It just gives me the chills

 

[JesusChristPose]

No, it receives negative comments for the same reason that it brought more fans -- it's more easily digestible. Deliverance is the easiest to digest of all of them, so it's no surprise it won even more fans than BWP.

Lina and I agree on something...how about that?

 

[JesusChristPose]

I found this mp3 on the Ars Metalli website. It's of extremely poor quality and since the label went under, it hasn't been improved. The bass and drums are drowned out, which sucks.

Also, there are reviews of Arcane Sun at The Metal Observer and Larm Reviews.

http://www.ars-metalli.de/sound/04%...rain.mp3

~ They sound good from what I heard. Where can I purchase their cd? I think I will take a chance on these guys.

 

[phon1c]

I've always meant to start a thread about this, I simply don't understand why so many dislike BWP. For me, it's the most complex, diverse, and atmospheric (yes moreso than morningrise) album they've done. Listening back to older material like morningrise or orchid after BWP, it just sounds so simple. As IanDork stated, the attention to detail on BWP is just stunning.

Oh well, I'm just glad I can appreciate the album they way I do.

 

[MetalManCPA]

I also think this album was a turning point for Opeth. Their previous four albums prior to BWP were made on the same straight road (IMO). You can bundle them together, and they are alike. They took a turn with BWP - and IMO, a great turn.

But I really enjoy reading peoples comments, because it has always brought wonderment to me why I love BWP so much, and others don't.

 

[COnsiderateApathy]

I also think this album was a turning point for Opeth. Their previous four albums prior to BWP were made on the same straight road (IMO). You can bundle them together, and they are alike. They took a turn with BWP - and IMO, a great turn.

Funny you should say that... I don't think of either MAYH or SL as grouped with their first two releases. When MAYH was released, many fans hated it, saying it was 'too much of a departure' for Opeth... too heavy for some, badly produced... name a complaint. And Still Life is another album I've heard referred to as the 'turning point' in a negative connotation - due to even more incorporation of mellow with the heavy, et cetera.

Ah, who knows. In my opinion, MAYH and BWP are Opeth's masterpieces. But don't get me wrong, all the other albums are light-years ahead of anything else that's out there, and I love them all too. It's just that those particular two are the most diverse to me, and the ones I pull out the most often.

To each their own.


NP: Opeth - 'Blackwater Park'

 

[A Journeys End]

I didn't care for it because it sounded bland and boring. Just my opinion.