Opeth Shred

That is completely wrong. I don't know where you are getting this from. Live, satch to some degree, but especially vai, gets more wankish to put on a show. That said, there are Vai fans who cry after hearing/watching vai play some of his ballads live. He MOVES people. They aren't crying because they couldn't see his fingers moving.

Do yourself a favor and go download Rubina(Live) by Satriani. Then come back and try to tell me that he writes stuff merely to show off his virtuoso skillz. While you are there, download Always with me always with you and Until we say goodbye.
 
Whilst I agree with the above post to some extent, you still have to agree that songs like 'Always With Me, Always With You' are still completely focused on the lead work, which sounds like it may well be improvised.

I think true artistry comes in the ability to take time, get inspired and work on an idea or set of ideas that flow cohesively in a fashion that isn't ordained by scales or logical key changes and modulations and shit.

It may be slower and not shred, but it doesn't mean that it's any good.
 
Now we're getting somewhere. By your explanation, for music to be good, it can't follow scales, logical key changes, or modulations. Or did I read that wrong?

In your first paragraph, I think that to make a comparison, Opeth's rhythm work and background music almost paint a picture and set a mood. You feel that Satriani's lead work is doing all of that, and that it isn't as effective as Opeth's. Am I correct?
 
No, essentially what I am saying is that whilst I respect Satriani as an artist, I still find his music largely predictable and boring with focus on lead above all else, as is the case with most of these virtuoso artists. My love of music lies primarily in an entire composition, hence why I love layered music, such as symphonies and alot of Opeth's work on Still Life.

Don't get me wrong however, I can still appreciate formulaic music such as that from the classic era and certain melodic death bands, but I find that it generally only satiates the urge I have to hear 'technical' music. There is a level of precision and technical fluidity that seems to only come with that area of music. If not that, then at least the symphonic pieces which have enough layering in them to really make one 'ooooh' and 'ahhh'. And whilst all this old music is generally based on those strict musical principles it still gives me more of a lively feeling than the average wankerish virtuoso artist who shreds for the sake of it. The ability to mix atmosphere and technicality seamlessly is a true gem of a gift for a musician, in my opinion. This is something I don't feel any virtuoso artist of modern days I have heard has mastered.

Also, I'm not sure whether you're intentionally misinterpreting my previous post or simply misreading it, but no, what you see is not the case.

In your first paragraph, I think that to make a comparison, Opeth's rhythm work and background music almost paint a picture and set a mood. You feel that Satriani's lead work is doing all of that, and that it isn't as effective as Opeth's. Am I correct?
Click to expand...
Hmm, this is an interesting one. I don't necessarily see Opeth as music that evokes imagery as many people tend to. It could be the fact that I'm a guitarist and all of their music fits within familiar phrases to me, and also the fact that I have the background to understand how Opeth would have come about such riffs or song parts. It's a rare song indeed that makes me forget music is simply a string of notes and completely immerses me in blissful ambience (nevertheless I continue the hunt...).

In any sense, if any Opeth riff were to have any significant impact on me, as far as evoking imagery goes, then I would have to say that no, Satriani's lead work doesn't play that role. A backing song part is a backing song part, if we were to draw comparisons, we'd need to draw Satriani's entire catalogue against Opeth's solo parts to be fair to both artists. A simple looped backing guitar part making way to impressive lead work is different to one that has been crafted to work seamlessly in whatever composition its part of.

The fact that is most pertinent here I think is that Opeth's music is crafted with this intention of telling a musical 'story' and this craftsmanship of music is what Opeth are so recknowned for. Satriani seems to create parts that are more focused on individual enjoyment, the enjoyment of those who are not overly familiar with musical theory, those who are familiar with theory and orient themselves strictly around it and see no further merit in the overall compositional value of a piece and simply those who appreciate simple, catchy and at times quite technical guitar work. This is the distinction that needs to be drawn and comprehended before a comparison between Opeth's riffs and a Joe Satriani lead part can even be made.

Now we're getting somewhere. By your explanation, for music to be good, it can't follow scales, logical key changes, or modulations. Or did I read that wrong?
Click to expand...
To put it simply: I tend to appreciate unpredictable music more than its contrasting counterpart. Whilst I do enjoy a fair share of old 'predictable' music, there is only so much I can take before I want to hear a greater degree of humanity and emotional and artistic expression in it.
 
I'm having a bit of trouble figuring out where Satriani's improvisational style becomes predictable and opeth's compositional style becomes unpredictable. Shouldn't it be the other way around?
 
i'm not into the virtuoso guitarists. i haven't heard a TON, but i've heard a few.
they are all talented, but to me, not entertaining or too interesting to hear.
sure they can play solos 5000 mph, and play the craziest scales or whatever, but..that gets boring after a while. i like to not hear PERFECT music in that sense.
it all sounds the same to me.

i'd much rather hear 1 or 2 seperate solos per song, as most bands do, then to hear a 10 minute solo.
i dunno, it's just not appealing to me i guess. i definetly say they are great guitarists..but i'd rather listen to opeth or the like.
 
opeth's music isnt comparable to satriani's stuff. satriani writed 45 minutes of guitar solos each cd. he's good at that, he has great ideas but he doesnt write songs. there's no point in comparing their stuff.

about G3: even if you think that satriani, vai and malmsteem wank, what about eric johnson....?
 
i'm not into the virtuoso guitarists. i haven't heard a TON, but i've heard a few.
they are all talented, but to me, not entertaining or too interesting to hear.
sure they can play solos 5000 mph, and play the craziest scales or whatever, but..that gets boring after a while. i like to not hear PERFECT music in that sense.
it all sounds the same to me.
Click to expand...

I don't think anybody here will disagree with you. Playing really fast all the time isn't musical. My real point is that i've seen people using satriani as the model guitar virtuoso wanker extraordinare. I find it hard to believe that anybody who has actually heard Satriani's stuff thinks that it is all fast shred with no feeling.

He writes simple, minimalist rock tunes, and is great at it. He might play fast or use difficult techniques sometimes, but he doesn't fit into the typical description that people give of virtuoso guitarists. He uses his speed very sparingly.

Deliverance: let me send you a few satch songs.
 
i mean, to be honest, i haven't heard much from many of the guitarists, only a few tracks, but i know what they all sound like already haha. another thing is, some of the guys don't sing, and i like vocals, and even if they do sing they sound like ron allen getting his balls tugged (i like symph x, but..haha).
but, i'd be willing to hear some songs. PM me.
 
I disagree with you guys that shredding lacks emotion. All the bands listed have no emotion. There are alot of bands that shred AND have emotion.
Anyway I assume you guys have seen the Born to Shred 2 video where it says
Speed = Emotion
:kickass:
Just listen to fusion shred and you may know what I mean.
 
Hm... I can play the Peter Solo in Deliverance and it is one of my fav Opeth solos including 1st solo in Godheads Lament, those twin Funeral Portrait- Solos are amazing too...solos in In mist she was standing and the Windowpane solos are great...
 
satriani has no real emotion to me, his playing sounds too forced, every note is exactly on every beat, it sounds like a robot also it always sounds like "ok, Ill have this phrase, Ill repeat it for 12 bars, to show that I can use phrasing, then Ill hold some notes for ages to show how emotional my playing is, then Ill go bac to the origional phrasem then Ill shred like a mother fucker all over the fretboard using varius techniques to show that Im a virtuoso, then Ill hold some more notes again and use the wammy bar, ooh yeah, and Ill do it over a ballad with a guitar that has loads of chourus, chourus is emotional, then I dunno Ill change key or use the circle of fifths or some crap so everyone knws Im a musical genius and not just a fret wanker"
 
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