All I know is we just had a show here in Albany last week, was no more than a 45 min drive, I coulda of went, shoulda went but for some reason didnt and it doesnt bother me. I dont know whats going on but I should be concerned. I've been curious about seeing Opeth live and havent seen DT since 92 or 93... yet I just let it go... [grief]
Opeth: Watershed
- Thread starter DoomsdayZach
- Start date
Bullshit, both Zach and I are musicians.
I think that at a gig a band should use their music to put on a show. If I just wanted a performance I wouldn't bother buying a gig ticket, I'd just listen to a CD.
ToastedOveries
Stranger in the night
I went to Paganfest instead of this crappy dream theater tour. That show was 1000 times better than any time i've seen opeth and stuff. I chose.... wisely.
100% true, i was gonna let it go, but this is exactly right. I appreciate people that can bust off a good solo, but it's still possible to put on a good show. Tell me it's not impressive to see a bassist play a ridiculous fast bassline that's all over the fretboard (literally hitting every string and just up and down and all over) followed by a 3 string tapping segment, ALL while circular headbanging and not looking at his hands. I've seen people do this very thing, which in my opinion invalidates any opinion that to be a good musician, you have to fully insert a stick up your ass and glue your damn feet in place.
Not all musicians are uptight nor do all of them want to watch a clinic. I can't tell you how many times I am furiously headbanging, stop to watch a kick-ass part, then resume headbanging, but it's only as long as the people playing are into it. You'll get as much out of your audience as you give to them.
ToastedOveries
Stranger in the night
I can't believe these recent DT shows have been sit-down gigs
That just highlights one of the problems I find with many prog fans, it seems that to a lot of poeple music is a Science and when they go to gigs its for a presentation.
That really doesn't have much to do with it. There are other ways to enjoy gigs than swinging your hair in the faces of everyone next to you and thrashing around. A Dream Theater concert and your average metal concert are very different and you're making a sad attempt at placing your standards for one onto the other, which is where your logic is flawed.
Yngvai X
Dark Emperor
Count me in as another musician who is on the side of Zach and Swabs. Granted, I don't like if the band is sacrificing tightness for the sake of a stage show, but usually most of the bands that do put on a good performance have the music down so well they can afford to put some energy into the performance. As tacky and lame as his stage presence is, look at Yngwie. There's a quality musician who can perform too.
Zach, if you think this debate is bad, try talking to someone that only listens to prog*rock*... the type that think Dream Theater are "too heavy" and own every album Trent Gardner was ever on (and the simple fact that I even know who Trent Gardner is, let alone can say that I DO own an album he was on makes me a pretty lame prog dork as well).
Zach, if you think this debate is bad, try talking to someone that only listens to prog*rock*... the type that think Dream Theater are "too heavy" and own every album Trent Gardner was ever on (and the simple fact that I even know who Trent Gardner is, let alone can say that I DO own an album he was on makes me a pretty lame prog dork as well).
Yngvai X
Dark Emperor
Judging from the amount of performers I've seen that lack this, and the few amount that have it, this is way easier said than done.
I don't know if Yngwie is a good example....his ridiculous stage antics really do take away from his performance, which has already been hurt by his slipping over the years.
Burnout
Faith Puppeteer
I've yet to see Opeth live and half the bands I would love to see live fail to tour down here as a basis for comparison.
That said, I much prefer an energetic stage show to clinical performance and I do not think that technicality in terms of material/musicianship and energy are mutually exclusive.
The Mars Volta have some exceedingly spacy/convoluted material, but they still managed to pull off said material, improvise additional material and also put on one of the most energetic, entertaining shows I've ever seen.
The difference is even pretty notable on concert DVDs. Opeth were basically nailed to the floor on Lamentations, whereas a band like Martyr, whose material may be even more complex than Opeth's, manages to move around and create a much more engaging experience. Quo Vadis is also fairly technical but still manage to be mobile and engaging.
Point being: talent/technicality and showmanship aren't mutually exclusive.
ramses
Member
- Jan 19, 2004
- 1,103
- 0
- 36
Oh, fucking hell!! Dream Theater just starting to play seated venues? They've been doing it for fucking YEARS!! They have also been around for 20+ years, so I think they obviously enjoy what they do. I enjoy both aspects of seeing a band live. Dream Theater, or any other band don't have to do anything to cater to me, or anybody else. I for one could care less either way, if they move, gyrate, shoegaze, or piss onstage. Every band is different. You're lucky you never got to see Psychotic Waltz live, or you guys would bitch about their guitarist Brian McAlpin...he doesn't move at all!
(he's in a wheelchair) He must be a prick.....for not having stage presence.
(he's in a wheelchair) He must be a prick.....for not having stage presence.
ToastedOveries
Stranger in the night
wow thats totally devoid of the point that Swabs and Zach were actually making. Ive never even Seen john Myung smile, ever, Its rare from Petrucci too, you cant say they have charisma, they dont, Look at Michael Romeo, doesnt move much, but somehow hes alot more entertaining than John Petrucci, he just looks like hes enjoying himself every second hes up there, John Myung looks like hes filing papers at work or something.
schenkadere
Obey my dog!
If there's going to be no show simply because the music is so complex or deep or moody, then what the fuck are we paying 60-100 bucks a seat for? I don't buy a TV or pay for cable not to be entertained. It's a show and there has to be a difference between the live experience and listening to a CD or watching a DVD...besides, of course, crappy sound and 8 dollar beers.
OK, theres been all kinds of performers over the years. Alot of players that just stood and did their job. However the best shows are by bands that take command of the stage, provided their sound doesnt suck. Hell in rock this dates back to Elvis, James Brown, Michael Jackson, to Hendrix, Joplin, the syncronized stage strut of the boys from ZZ Top to the three players from Priest lining up bangin and swinging their necks. I've never been one to place the extremes that Zach is calling for nor would I expect guys like Romeo or Petrucci to be able to multi task to much extreme at all... but when I saw some DT vids or the G3 vid with Petrucci, it was blatently obvious he needed some life. Now take a lead vocalist... he has got to show some soul, he's not got alot to do in the coordination department... he has got to become the music, he is the avenue of expression, I want to see someone that is feeling it clear down to the bone. I dont need David Lee Roth but I dont want a choir boy that just stands there and sings either. Only speaking for DT they need to do something.
Of similiar topic, the last time I saw Queensryche in the fall the "new" guitarist, while not a total dud on stage... came out with one of those stupid ski hats on wearing gigantic headphones... which he kept on for the entire show..... hellfuckinO !
Of similiar topic, the last time I saw Queensryche in the fall the "new" guitarist, while not a total dud on stage... came out with one of those stupid ski hats on wearing gigantic headphones... which he kept on for the entire show..... hellfuckinO !
You're lucky you never got to see Psychotic Waltz live, or you guys would bitch about their guitarist Brian McAlpin...he doesn't move at all!
Jeff Beccera from Possessed is in a wheelchair. He still makes an attempt to move onstage while he sings. i know, big difference between a mic and a guitar. But the point is that I can get 5 friends to stand in my room and i can watch them just stand there while i listen to dream theater. I don't have any friends in wheelchairs though, so it would have been worth going to see Psychotic Waltz for that.
Exactly, plus the other members from SymX are giving you something to watch. Russ is a great frontman (Labrie... not so much), Lepond is rockin' out almost all the time to some degree and looks like he has fun, they interact with each other and the fans onstage, Romeo gives Russ shit... it's not that every member has to be going apeshit at all times, but as Schenk said...
...Which is right on the money. I want the musicians to be competant and be able to perform what they do on the album, but if it's slightly different, if there's a small mistake here and there because they're putting on a show, that's cool. Flawless playing is boring at the expense of no show. Just as I wouldn't put up with a sloppy band who jumped around and made asses of themselves. There has to be a medium, and personally I'm willing to sacrifice perfection and flawlessness if it means the show is memorable.
Kenneth R.
Cináed
I'm on your side as well. Concerts are about interaction, if I want to see a sit down band like Dream Theater, I'll go watch a fuckin movie.
And while both these bands do put on a great show, all it takes is something small like this to really make people remember you. Small gesture, huge response.
And that is why you just don't do that. ever. That's absolutely horrific.
Kenneth R.
Cináed
How many rush/dt gigs have you seen? there's a big difference: first let's cover the similarities though. both are massively popular and so both tend to play stadiums. both have lots of money to afford screens and fireworks and lasers. but while DT relies solely on that to be their "stage presence" while they stand still like cardboard cutouts, rush is much more animated and crowd connected. opeth and other bands are the same way. i cannot fathom how people who have been to a DT gig where they sit quietly in their assigned seats throughout the movie (cause that's what it is), and when it's done, the band leaves, they leave, and that's the end. maybe you go to the FYE tent to cash in on some signing gimmicks. the level of crowd interaction and actual stage PRESENCE just is not there.
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