People selling cracked plugins (WOW)

[aramism]

I was just simply trying to point out that I don't think the issue is as black and white as some people on here seem to be claiming, there is a lot of grey area, and if you look at the issue from a larger perspective than 'I’m a studio engineer and the cost of my plug-ins is going up' it is easier to reach a logical conclusion than saying copy = evil, capitalism = good, all praise Ronald Reagan etc... (Well I'm exaggerating, but you get my point). You have to look at the larger issues causing the problem, even though that may be a massive open-ended chicken and egg argument, but truth as they say is sublime. The truth is always in the context, and over-implications are usually one-sided. It is important to try and understand each others point of view, without condemnation.

chryst was right.


look i just feel that this issue is simpler than that. you could tie in any "gray area" argument to anything. let's bring up abortion while we're at it, and gay rights, and global warming...

i'm not condeming people who used pirated i'm just saying it sucks and it's pretty lame. from the perspective of the guy that says "i'm poor and i can't afford it" then i say don't buy it. too bad. i'm not poor, but i can't afford a porsche 911 gt2 so i don't buy it. the difference is the software you "can't afford" is available stolen for you so you push aside your moral qualms and say fuck it i can't afford it but it's right here for download so i can get it.

i'll even play devils advocate here and say ok fine for the people that really can't afford it, they weren't gonna buy it anyway because they can't afford it so it's not much of a loss in that case... fine

that being said, i know a lot of people who are not "poor" and can afford some of it but don't pay for it and then go above and beyond and get stuff that is very high end that they really can't afford. that's where it gets shitty. then you have people that have in home recording studios that charge other bands money to record when their daw and plug ins are all cracked.

sorry but that is dead wrong.

being from uzbekistan and getting a cracked plug in is one thing, living in new york city in a middle class neighborhood and still using cracked plugs is another.

 

[greyskull]

I think that with software like reaper and the host of free plugins avaliable there is no excuse for using cracked software. Even if you are learning your way into this field!

God.... I plugged reaper. I feel dirty, time to go and stare at the reassuring now slightly darker gray of pro tools to make myself feel less sordid

 

[Rob Logic]

Every single person using cracked plugins is a crook and should be treated as such. Those selling cracked plugs are even worse.

For those of you who dont take production "seriously" would you break into a hardware store and steal all the tools you need to do a job around the house that you arent taking "seriously"?

All you hacks are FUCKING LAME. Period. And alot of you are the great reason why so many working class engineers and studios are losing tons of money and/or shutting down. You have zero overhead charge next to nothing and fuck legit people out of work because you're not taking it "seriously".

Get real, you are all crooks whether you are charing money, taking it seriously, or whatever it is you do to justify using stolen shit.

Nice Mark, well said!

 

[Metaltastic]

I think that with software like reaper and the host of free plugins avaliable there is no excuse for using cracked software. Even if you are learning your way into this field!

God.... I plugged reaper. I feel dirty, time to go and stare at the reassuring now slightly darker gray of pro tools to make myself feel less sordid

Hahaha, don't fight it if it feels so right!

 

[axeman720]

WOW. Thats way out in left field. There is no correlation between stealing tangible merchandise and downloading a software rip. None what so ever. Just like its quite different to physically steal a CD, from best buy then it is to download it off of the internet. At some point said item was paid for, and someone that paid for it decided to share it. If the original copy was indeed stolen, thats a whole different can of worms.

How many people that own illegal plug-in's would buy them???? How many, home hobbyist are going to drop 3'g on software so they can record their shitty guitar riffs????

None. So why get your panties all twisted up over someone else?

Waves is not loosing out on money, and your not loosing out on money. Whats the problem??? Are you really that worried that people are taking your business away due to cracked plug-ins???

Maybe you should work on being a better engineer...

Fuck plugin's anyway, go analog. It wont matter if someone is using a cracked G-Comp, buy the real fuckin thing and wow all your clients with the quality of your work and impressive collection of real, gear.

Last time I checked, audio production, and recording is a business, thats done by professionals that have years of experience, and a well trained ear. None of those things can be stolen, and if you are a real professional you have nothing to worry about.

Not that I'm defending my own actions. I own all of my shit. But the more I buy real gear, tangible, gear the less I stop using my Waves, or UAD, or Sonnox plugs. I don't care that people that I am competing in business with are using cracked software. All the cracked software in the world still wont wow clients like my 36 channel 52 input console that sits in the hart of my studio...

My 2 cents.

Im not sure anything will wow your clients or your peers as much as your absolutely incredible amount of ignorance...

And Im really not sure how or why you think its remotely ok to tell me or anyone else on this forum "they need to work on being a better engineer" when i was merely expressing an opinion on something is IN FACT ILLEGAL and is in fact fucking up this industry. Im not looking for criticism... im expressing an opinion. I'd love to see the way you treat clients...

Wow... im still shocked... I mean why the fuck would you even say that? I mean... Are you fucking kidding me? That shit is WAY OUT IN LEFT FIELD. Matter of fact... fuck you

That being said... I'm not worried at all about people with hacked plugins taking away from business, if anything im too booked right now, and thats a great thing...

But the fact is piracy is stealing, software does not just appear in the hands of the companies that sell it. People ARE PAID to make it and stores buy it to SELL IT TO YOU. These companies need profit and capital to operate, just like your studio does. What about that dont you get? If someone isnt going to buy a plugin, they shouldnt be using it for profit, period.

If someone is stealing plugins and charging less to do work because they have less overhead they are skewing the common economic ground that keeps businesses competitive and thriving. You may be doing fine and its totally up to you to not care about piracy, but no matter how you stack it, it hurts business for everyone.

 

[James Murphy]

sorry poor people from poor countries... the right to basic health care, food, and shelter is hardly equivalent to a license for free software and other intellectual properies for life.... and the fact you own a computer and indulge in any level whatsoever of audio production pretty much indicates that you aren't starving or doing without shelter. get a new argument.

 

[Rob Logic]

sorry poor people from poor countries... the right to basic health care, food, and shelter is hardly equivalent to a license for free software and other intellectual properies for life.... and the fact you own a computer and indulge in any level whatsoever of audio production pretty much indicates that you aren't starving or doing without shelter. get a new argument.

I've never had a problem holding out for software or anything that is in fact in my opinion luxury, until all other basic needs of existence are met. For that matter, all the people complaining about how much money they have to live off of weekly to act like cigarettes are an essential part of that survival have no arguement. Smoking cigarettes surely doesn't get you any more clients. Money spent there is surely a fruitless investment (for your studio and your life). I'm happy these decisions of priority in life come naturally to me and I'm sorry it's a challenge for others.

 

[TheDriller]

sorry poor people from poor countries... the right to basic health care, food, and shelter is hardly equivalent to a license for free software and other intellectual properies for life.... and the fact you own a computer and indulge in any level whatsoever of audio production pretty much indicates that you aren't starving or doing without shelter. get a new argument.

i wasn't suggesting that plug-ins=food, merely responding to drew_drummers retarded "Capitalism. If you can't afford something, then you don't deserve to have it. It's pretty basic really." statement.

 

[JeffTD]

Seriously, FYE's are fucking everywhere around me (though I've never heard of the others you mentioned, must be a west-coast thing - weirdos )

Rasputin/Amoeba are indie record stores that have basically flourished in the Bay Area since god knows when... Suncoast is the movie version of Sam Goody, same parent company.

We've got In-N-Out, though... I'd rather be a weirdo than deprived of such nutrients!

 

[John_C]

Who's with me in thinking that the real line lies at the point where you make money out of it..........

someone who downloads a pirate plug and never uses it: how much at fault are they?

someone who downloads a pirate plug and only uses it non-commercially: in my eyes they should only do this if there isn't a perfectly good free/cheap alternative (which in the world of music production software there almost ALWAYS is)

someone who downloads a pirate plug and uses it commercially or sells it on: obviously ripping off hard working developers




i reckon more companies should do commercial and private licenses. E.g. imagine how much the sales of drumagog (or aptrigga if thats how you roll ) would increase if they had a private license selling for about £40. A significant proportion of people who would otherwise pirate it would cough up the cash, bringing in more revenue to the developers than holding out at the ridiculous prices they have atm. Surely those guys have seen a price elasticity of demand diagram at least once???????

 

[Metaltastic]

APTrigga is ~£40 dude

 

[Chryst Krispies]

We've got In-N-Out, though... I'd rather be a weirdo than deprived of such nutrients!

MUST HAVE!!!!

 

[John_C]

APTrigga is ~£40 dude

hahaha oh dear so it is...........sorry

but the rest still stands

 

[tearsofthedragon]

I'm hardly talking about global warming here, and I'm not saying that what you are saying is wrong either, I just find it annoying how people can be so selective in their beliefs about what 'stealing' is, when it suits them. We all take things we're not supposed to, whether it is in the destruction of the planet (as you brought up global warming), or the food we eat (animals) etc...

The interesting thing about capitalism is that it functions on a Darwinian 'the strongest will survive' cut-throat mentality, and people still find it strange when others then try and get ahead by taking shortcuts within such a system? It doesn't surprise me at all; in fact, I think it's just hilarious. It just seems a bit redundant to me, to try and legislate morality in such a way, when these are the basic principles capitalism was founded on anyway.

 

[John_C]

however, none of us live if in true capitalist states. All real life countries work on compromised and blended ideologies, they have to

 

[Metaltastic]

Yeah, fuck total laissez-faire capitalism (anyone who has half a heart and has read Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle" should agree)

 

[egan.]

There is no correlation between stealing tangible merchandise and downloading a software rip. None what so ever. Just like its quite different to physically steal a CD, from best buy then it is to download it off of the internet. At some point said item was paid for, and someone that paid for it decided to share it.

The problem with this logic is there is a direct correlation. Being different and being unrelated are not the same thing. Clearly if you look at the trend in paid music sales (hard media or paid download) you can see a direct correlation between falling sales in the music industry and rising piracy. Obviously the loss isn't directly proportionate but it is also obvious that piracy delivered a severe blow to the music industry.
It seems only natural that the demonstrable negative impact of piracy in music would be paralleled in the software industry.

 

[ParsonsMatt]

Yeah, fuck total laissez-faire capitalism (anyone who has half a heart and has read Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle" should agree)

 

[kev]

Who's with me in thinking that the real line lies at the point where you make money out of it..........

someone who downloads a pirate plug and never uses it: how much at fault are they?

someone who downloads a pirate plug and only uses it non-commercially: in my eyes they should only do this if there isn't a perfectly good free/cheap alternative (which in the world of music production software there almost ALWAYS is)

someone who downloads a pirate plug and uses it commercially or sells it on: obviously ripping off hard working developers




i reckon more companies should do commercial and private licenses. E.g. imagine how much the sales of drumagog (or aptrigga if thats how you roll ) would increase if they had a private license selling for about £40. A significant proportion of people who would otherwise pirate it would cough up the cash, bringing in more revenue to the developers than holding out at the ridiculous prices they have atm. Surely those guys have seen a price elasticity of demand diagram at least once???????

If i am brutally honest about it, this is where I stand at the moment morally, still doesnt stand up though in court oc.

 

[Metaltastic]

I didn't really mean it as a joke...