nomisofsiman
Member
Agreed. I feel a lot of people tend to call something metal or not metal a lot of the time due to them just liking it or not, despite what it actually is.
Please for the love of GOD, someone enlighten me...
- Thread starter Metal_Camden
- Start date
Agreed. I feel a lot of people tend to call something metal or not metal a lot of the time due to them just liking it or not, despite what it actually is.
No Username
Member
I made it to 2:10 before I 
uke:
But seriously, you have to wonder why this video got produced? They are a bunch of pretty boys...13 year old girls will get wet watching them and 13 year old boys will want to BE them. I can think of 100 examples where shitty musicians writing shitty music made it big based solely on their looks.
Music, TV, Movies, all are pointed squarely at the demographic that has money to burn and no taste: the typical stupid American teenager. Your rant should be directed at VR completely and not at these talentless jackasses in the video...VR has such a low opinion of us, the public, that they think we will buy whatever shit they throw in front of us.
I find it ironic that labels will support bands like this, and then complain when people "illegally download" the music. This song, the album, the group will get none of my money and anyone who likes this shit will probably steal it anyway.
If VR wanted to make a lot more money, they should be signing country and rap artists--at least people still buy those kinds of albums.
uke:But seriously, you have to wonder why this video got produced? They are a bunch of pretty boys...13 year old girls will get wet watching them and 13 year old boys will want to BE them. I can think of 100 examples where shitty musicians writing shitty music made it big based solely on their looks.
Music, TV, Movies, all are pointed squarely at the demographic that has money to burn and no taste: the typical stupid American teenager. Your rant should be directed at VR completely and not at these talentless jackasses in the video...VR has such a low opinion of us, the public, that they think we will buy whatever shit they throw in front of us.
I find it ironic that labels will support bands like this, and then complain when people "illegally download" the music. This song, the album, the group will get none of my money and anyone who likes this shit will probably steal it anyway.
If VR wanted to make a lot more money, they should be signing country and rap artists--at least people still buy those kinds of albums.
General Zod
Ruler of Australia
Agreed 100%. It's the last sentence that is at the heart of issue for me. It goes back to people being overly protective of the genre. Without trying to create a bad pun, Metal has always been a melting pot. And it's just always struck me as odd that musicians can blend in everything from Jazz to Classical to Opera, without it having to be something other than Metal. Yet somehow, Hardcore remains this forbidden ingredient, that somehow makes the music something less than Metal.
skyrefuge
Member
What other reason could their possibly be? Because you certainly can't tell from listening to their music that they're not a metal band! Not that those people would be personally familiar with their early material, but they somehow must at least know "this is a band who people I don't like are a fan of for some reason, and since I'm a tribal warrior, I refuse to like what my imagined enemy likes".
If someone thinks that LoG's music is not "metal", I know it's utterly useless for me to talk about music with them. The only purpose for genre labels is to describe what music sounds like without using 1000 words. The type of clothes fans of a band like to wear is irrelevant to me. It's as pointless as discussing beer with someone who thinks that beer isn't beer when it's made by a left-handed brewer.
I was under the impression that this "metal-is-a-lifestyle" boundary-drawing was dying a long-overdue death (heck, metal-archives includes LoG!) so it's actually sort of nostalgically charming to read Orion Crystal Ice tying himself into semi-racist knots trying to draw that boundary.
Neil
AeonicSlumber
srs
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Hahaha well metal archives' forums have many threads from dugeon crawling nerds demanding that some pages should be taken down due to lack of metalness.
General Zod
Ruler of Australia
Hmmm... I actually can't tell if you're agreeing or disagreeing with the post your quoting. Either way, I agree with most of what you wrote.
Orion Crystal Ice
Rider of the Astral Fire
This is about the most ignorant thing you could possibly choose to say, especially as a response to a completely civil post, but I've seen you respond in this same fashion to other stuff by other people who you don't know or bother to learn about, so at least it isn't shocking. I just thought I might point out the total lack of thought-before-speech, or perhaps some skewed vision of anti-PCism is what draws you to have zero manners before an actual attempt at discussion with the members of the board, who knows. Too bad you actually contributed completely nothing in response. I kind of knew I was wasting my time, but alas, naivety.
Orion Crystal Ice
Rider of the Astral Fire
You know what, Sparky, I wasn't even going to go into this any further, but you've caught me in a mood so I'm just going to put it all out there for you and the fine folks reading this that you've decided to cheaply soil my name for. I get it. You are that one guy who goes out of their way to see something racist or et cetera in anything, usually to defend something which is often indefensible. 'Wigger', in case you didn't know, or were not completely sure, is about the only word I can think of where I can say it and everybody will instantly know what I mean. If we were all based in another country, e.g. England, there would be some other word I could say that would rile you up, I don't know, something like 'chav' for one. And when a word like that is in action, I'm pretty conflicted, because I've made my views on mass generalization known here, but at the same time, there are people who behave at their absolute damnedest to keep a stereotype up and fully operational in the perception of others, and I kind of feel like that isn't my fault.
Continued: Here's a fun fact - people who come up in or dwell in poor or minimally populated areas are 9 times out of 10 less educated than those who do not. Is it their fault? No. Is it up to them what they do with their lives? Yes, it absolutely is. Here's the point - I don't care if you're a flag-toting redneck or some pants-on-the-ground hooligan, you can be any color of the bloody rainbow you like, the point is, I dislike the uneducated, aggressive, Neanderthal-esque approach to life's issues ACROSS THE BOARD, and I don't want it in my music, which is my lifeblood. Why is that so intimidating?
Continued: Here are some more fun facts. I am active with the NE FL branch of Amnesty International, in case you don't know what that organization is, a good deal of what they do involves campaigning for HUMAN rights across the GLOBE. There's a lot of people of a lot of colors and a lot of classes ACROSS THE GLOBE. So I'm racist? Fun fact #2 in this series: When I was 12, I was arrested and sent to jail for LOOKING like WHITE PEOPLE who had just shot up a school and offed themselves (Columbine, 1999), you know, being the 'metal' kid and all of that. I was testified against by a mixture of white socialist bureaucrats and black gangsters. I never made it to high school, because I stopped going - halfway through my 'reintegration process' of attending 'alternative' schools after I did some months in Juve, I was getting in fights, sometimes involving weapons, every single day, with people who wanted to kill me because I was the white quiet guy in the school, and *the school wasn't doing anything about it.* My life was in danger. Funny how most of them didn't care to want to mention that I would be constantly ministering during the lunchtimes to the few friends I had - WHO WERE BLACK, and not the 2-3 other white kids in the school. Fun fact #3 of this series. Ashley Flynn, who is on keys and backing vocals in the band, has a family mostly comprised of Filipinos because her father has about a billion children with a native Filipino wife. I guess a racially motivated guy would get along really well in that family, yeah? That isn't the end of it, I've more than dabbled in a lot more cultures than that. Oh, also, most of the time I'm not listening to metal, I'm playing jazz, which was primarily created by and played by BLACK musicians interpreting imported white music to their own brilliant apex.
Now do you want to actually address any questions or points in the posts I made or do you want to keep labeling and trolling and avoiding intelligent discourse?
Continued: Here's a fun fact - people who come up in or dwell in poor or minimally populated areas are 9 times out of 10 less educated than those who do not. Is it their fault? No. Is it up to them what they do with their lives? Yes, it absolutely is. Here's the point - I don't care if you're a flag-toting redneck or some pants-on-the-ground hooligan, you can be any color of the bloody rainbow you like, the point is, I dislike the uneducated, aggressive, Neanderthal-esque approach to life's issues ACROSS THE BOARD, and I don't want it in my music, which is my lifeblood. Why is that so intimidating?
Continued: Here are some more fun facts. I am active with the NE FL branch of Amnesty International, in case you don't know what that organization is, a good deal of what they do involves campaigning for HUMAN rights across the GLOBE. There's a lot of people of a lot of colors and a lot of classes ACROSS THE GLOBE. So I'm racist? Fun fact #2 in this series: When I was 12, I was arrested and sent to jail for LOOKING like WHITE PEOPLE who had just shot up a school and offed themselves (Columbine, 1999), you know, being the 'metal' kid and all of that. I was testified against by a mixture of white socialist bureaucrats and black gangsters. I never made it to high school, because I stopped going - halfway through my 'reintegration process' of attending 'alternative' schools after I did some months in Juve, I was getting in fights, sometimes involving weapons, every single day, with people who wanted to kill me because I was the white quiet guy in the school, and *the school wasn't doing anything about it.* My life was in danger. Funny how most of them didn't care to want to mention that I would be constantly ministering during the lunchtimes to the few friends I had - WHO WERE BLACK, and not the 2-3 other white kids in the school. Fun fact #3 of this series. Ashley Flynn, who is on keys and backing vocals in the band, has a family mostly comprised of Filipinos because her father has about a billion children with a native Filipino wife. I guess a racially motivated guy would get along really well in that family, yeah? That isn't the end of it, I've more than dabbled in a lot more cultures than that. Oh, also, most of the time I'm not listening to metal, I'm playing jazz, which was primarily created by and played by BLACK musicians interpreting imported white music to their own brilliant apex.
Now do you want to actually address any questions or points in the posts I made or do you want to keep labeling and trolling and avoiding intelligent discourse?
DuchessOfDork
Member
- Feb 9, 2009
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Don't let it get to you, dude. I'm with you, and I'm one of the brown skinned folk from an urban area.
That being said, I find a lot of the overly aggressive and violent themes in some metal to be just as bad as the overtly sexual gangsta rap songs that are popular, in my hometown. Deep breaths.. cold beer.. that fixes everything.
(And if you don't drink alcohol, perhaps try a nice herbal tea!)
General Zod
Ruler of Australia
I think we should be more careful about painting anyone as racist, anti-Semitic, anti... whatever. Such tags have a way of sticking, even when they're not accurate. Personally, I didn't view OCI's post as racist. He simply used a word, that while not 100% PC, quickly conveyed what he intended to convey. And in my mind, there's a million miles between being racist and being non-PC.
DemonOfTheWoods
Your option out of here
TribunalRecords
Record Label(s)/Vocalist
actually, yes since i own over 10,000 cds there are definitely some bands i have come to hate but still have their CDs because they are worthless and cannot be sold, but i found out how much i disliked them after buying them. so yes, for someone who actually BUYS music and doesn't use the internet as his sole source of "checking out bands" i have some shitty ones in the collection.
Converge "You Fail Me" being one of them actually.
skyrefuge
Member
Yikes! Ok, well at least I know now which part you took offense to...oddly I actually thought that I was being more asshole-ish about the "drawing boundaries between metal and non-metal" thing than the "semi-racist" thing. And yeah, I said "semi-racist". SEMI!!! That's gotta count for something, right?
I don't think you're a racist. I can't, because I don't know you at all. I'm only judging what you write. What you wrote contained some stuff that could be viewed as racist. You don't need to explain your life story to me to prove that you aren't a racist. You know yourself far better than I ever could, so please just write me off as an idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about. My opinion of some words you wrote isn't worth getting all riled up about.
There were two components in what you wrote, each maybe-slightly-quasi-racist, which together added up to semi-racist.
1) "Wigger". It's simply a contraction of the phrase "white my pals". If you're uncomfortable using the latter phrase, the former isn't really an improvement. I understand how language works and that you didn't invent the word, and you or your audience are likely not even conscious of its origin when using it. But I think it *is* something worth being conscious of, so I thought I'd point it out. Some time ago there was a kerfuffle here when White Sox manage Ozzie Guillen used the word "gay" to describe something he didn't like. I don't think Ozzie is homophobic, and don't think actual homosexual behavior was anywhere near his mind when using the term; the word had taken on its own meaning, synonymous with "stupid". But tracing its origin, it implies that the user thinks gay people are stupid/bad/etc. Since then, though I haven't tried to eliminate it completely, I've at least become more conscious of *my* use of the term "gay", and was happy to have the Ozzie incident prod me into giving it some thought. I very well may be the only person in the world who hears a (minor) alarm bell when reading the word "wigger"; if so, don't waste another thought on the matter. I'm not offended by it, I only wanted to raise the idea of how the word (and by extension, you) can be perceived by others.
2) This one actually contributed more to my "semi-racist" interpretation: in your initial post you used the words hip-hop, wigger, and 'urban' (which when in quotes I always interpret as a euphemism for "black") to draw your artificial borders around "metal". That seemed like a suspicious line to me since as Zod pointed out, there are presumably all sorts of other non-metal elements that you allow into your definition of "metal", so what other rationale was there for drawing your line at the inner-city-limits? Since then you have clarified by stating that it's really "uneducated, aggressive, Neanderthal-esque approach" where you draw the line, which is of course not racist at all (except towards the poor Neanderthals!) And even originally, my suspicion wasn't the active "I hate black people" usage of the word "racist", it was the passive "I think about things in terms of race" usage.
Yeah, that certainly wouldn't have had the tainted etymology (at least not one that I'm aware of!), though of course as you point out, then no one would have known what you were talking about.
I completely agree with you there, and we are entirely of the same mind in what we like and dislike.
This is much of the reason why I have no interest in Cannibal Corpse, Manowar, or Pantera, all bands that are aggressive and Neanderthal-esque. But it if you say that those bands are not metal because of those aspects, everyone will find your definition of "metal" useless and you won't be able to communicate.
There are simply way too many exceptions to the "metal is for intellectuals"/"hardcore+hip-hop is for Neanderthals" dichotomy for that model to hold any value.
Neil
TribunalRecords
Record Label(s)/Vocalist
AeonicSlumber
srs
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AeonicSlumber
srs
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Yes, when I look at these fine upstarts, the first thing that comes to my mind is high artistry for the only the most sophisticated individual. A feast for the ears -- and the mind!
Or these scholars here, the epitome of intelligent discourse! Each lyric is like a drop of sweet, undiscovered knowledge permeating my brain and teaching me new things. Why did I even go to college? What a waste of money, I could have been listening to metal!
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