Preparing your tracks for reamping: A Guide
- Thread starter Glenn Fricker
- Start date
Could be both 
An avid endorser of Behringer DIs !!! Hook me up on that too 
I think what we can do to find out is - I can record a short take through it and ask some of reamping gurus around here to give it a try at high gain - then we'll hear how really noisy (or not) this contraption is
An avid endorser of Behringer DIs !!! Hook me up on that too I think what we can do to find out is - I can record a short take through it and ask some of reamping gurus around here to give it a try at high gain - then we'll hear how really noisy (or not) this contraption is
I'd hate to stray away from the real subject here but I got some questions.
With an active DI - does it make any difference for the resulting sound quality based on how you power it :
1. +9 volt cell
2. +9 volt battery (rechargeable)
2. +9 volt DC power supply (hooked to the 9v battery socket)
3. +48 phantom power supply
or all 4 ways give exactly the same result ?
With an active DI - does it make any difference for the resulting sound quality based on how you power it :
1. +9 volt cell
2. +9 volt battery (rechargeable)
2. +9 volt DC power supply (hooked to the 9v battery socket)
3. +48 phantom power supply
or all 4 ways give exactly the same result ?
-J-
Member
- May 7, 2007
- 956
- 0
- 16
I've been wondering....if I know I'm going to use a Tube Screamer before the amp - wouldn't it be OK to go ahead and use that during tracking?
I mean it's probably not preferred for reamping, but I've found that when applying a VST amp sim (the JCM900) to a recorded guitar track, my sound was better when I recorded using a tube screamer, as opposed to recording totally dry and then applying a "virtual" tube screamer before the JCM900, or only using the JCM900 emu with no real or virtual effects in front of it. The "fake" tube screamer didn't cut the mustard like the real deal, and the JCM900 emu by itself was a little shy on the gain I sought.
I mean it's probably not preferred for reamping, but I've found that when applying a VST amp sim (the JCM900) to a recorded guitar track, my sound was better when I recorded using a tube screamer, as opposed to recording totally dry and then applying a "virtual" tube screamer before the JCM900, or only using the JCM900 emu with no real or virtual effects in front of it. The "fake" tube screamer didn't cut the mustard like the real deal, and the JCM900 emu by itself was a little shy on the gain I sought.
Give it a try - then you'll know for sure. As I've just been thinking out loud 2 posts above - record a short take through it and ask some of reamping gurus around here to give it a try (at high gain) - post it in the Reamp collaboration thread (it's one of the stickies )
)Most tube amps have an input impedance of around 1 Mohm, so using a DI with the same impedance seems to capture the exact same signal that most amps would see if the guitar was going directly in.
I've tried active & passive <1 Mohm DIs including the Redeye (30k) and the JDI (10k) and they definitely lose some of the signal, primarily in the high end. Some people do find this favorable however, and most distorted guitar tracks are LPF'd pretty hard anyway, because the information up there is just fizz.
When using a reamping device, the input impedance doesn't matter, because the volume/trim of the Reamp/X-Amp/Redeye dictates the volume, which determines the impedance that the amp sees. They can all go past "10" which means they can drive the amp harder than the actual guitar, so impedance at that point is meaningless as far as preserving the signal.
Also, when you plug a guitar into a stompbox pedal, such as an OD808, the guitar is only seeing 500k (500k for the OD808, different pedals may vary from 10k-500k) but it is a buffered design with internal voltage. And, because active pickups (EMG, LiveWire) involve a built-in preamp, and it buffers the signal so the pickups don't see a load the way that passive pickups do.
When preparing DI tracks for reamping, use the cleanest preamp you have available. Cheap preamps will add a lot of noise once you add an appreciable amount of gain, so just be aware of the gain staging and how it is affecting the tone.
Another tip I've found helpful (posted by Mutant) is to monitor through the reamp device while you are tracking the DI. This requires a low/zero latency interface and software, as well as both reamp device and a DI in use at the same time. What I do is open 2 audio tracks: the first one is the DI track with it's output assigned to a mono Hardware Output > Redeye > Amp. The latency on my system while tracking is exactly 5 samples, the time it takes to make the ADDA roundtrip. Doing this makes it easier to see how the front end (DI & preamp) and the back end (reamping device) is going to shape the final product. Thanks to Mutant for that seemingly obvious idea.
YMMV
I've tried active & passive <1 Mohm DIs including the Redeye (30k) and the JDI (10k) and they definitely lose some of the signal, primarily in the high end. Some people do find this favorable however, and most distorted guitar tracks are LPF'd pretty hard anyway, because the information up there is just fizz.
When using a reamping device, the input impedance doesn't matter, because the volume/trim of the Reamp/X-Amp/Redeye dictates the volume, which determines the impedance that the amp sees. They can all go past "10" which means they can drive the amp harder than the actual guitar, so impedance at that point is meaningless as far as preserving the signal.
Also, when you plug a guitar into a stompbox pedal, such as an OD808, the guitar is only seeing 500k (500k for the OD808, different pedals may vary from 10k-500k) but it is a buffered design with internal voltage. And, because active pickups (EMG, LiveWire) involve a built-in preamp, and it buffers the signal so the pickups don't see a load the way that passive pickups do.
When preparing DI tracks for reamping, use the cleanest preamp you have available. Cheap preamps will add a lot of noise once you add an appreciable amount of gain, so just be aware of the gain staging and how it is affecting the tone.
Another tip I've found helpful (posted by Mutant) is to monitor through the reamp device while you are tracking the DI. This requires a low/zero latency interface and software, as well as both reamp device and a DI in use at the same time. What I do is open 2 audio tracks: the first one is the DI track with it's output assigned to a mono Hardware Output > Redeye > Amp. The latency on my system while tracking is exactly 5 samples, the time it takes to make the ADDA roundtrip. Doing this makes it easier to see how the front end (DI & preamp) and the back end (reamping device) is going to shape the final product. Thanks to Mutant for that seemingly obvious idea.
YMMV
C_F_H_13
Protools Guru
Thanks Mutant for your prompt response.
Look what I've found (go figure then who knows what
customer review on J48 here at http://www.zzounds.com/item--RADJ48
quoting
"I purchased & returned two units. The first unit had 3 times the hiss of a Behringer. The second unit had 20% more hiss than the Behringer. For 5 times the price, I would expect less hiss & a better noise to signal ratio.
Submitted: 02/21/2007 "
Yeah, I'd question the validity of that review as well. Maybe he forgot to hit the ground loop switch? Or didn't stage his gain properly..... or any number of things. For me, the J48 has been a solid box.
-0z-
Just an couple thoughts:
If your computer audio interface already has an instrument input, you don't need a DI. You already have one, and most that I've seen within an interface are 1 Mohm or higher. You'll save some money, some unnecessary cabling, and having an extra box on the floor.
Using a transformer-based passive DI will change the tone, however, so that may be desirable to you. Just experiment. Monitor the way the DI sounds through the reamping device in real-time if you can. There really is no right answer to this stuff, only what works for you.
If your computer audio interface already has an instrument input, you don't need a DI. You already have one, and most that I've seen within an interface are 1 Mohm or higher. You'll save some money, some unnecessary cabling, and having an extra box on the floor.
Using a transformer-based passive DI will change the tone, however, so that may be desirable to you. Just experiment. Monitor the way the DI sounds through the reamping device in real-time if you can. There really is no right answer to this stuff, only what works for you.
Pman
Member
my tascam fw-1804 has the input impendance of 680k Ohms
could i get away with this? or would i have to get an appropriate box?
Guitar input (Input 8, Unbalanced) 6.3-mm TS jack (T: Hot, S: GND)
Input impedance 680k Ohm
Adjustable input range 44dBu (TRIM max) to +2dBu (TRIM min.)
Maximum input level +18dBu
could i get away with this? or would i have to get an appropriate box?
Guitar input (Input 8, Unbalanced) 6.3-mm TS jack (T: Hot, S: GND)
Input impedance 680k Ohm
Adjustable input range 44dBu (TRIM max) to +2dBu (TRIM min.)
Maximum input level +18dBu
Mutant
I hate that supercow !
For passive pickups, you'll probably want a higher impedance, but not necessarily.
Passive DIs have generally low impedance due to the transformer, but a lot of people still like using them with passive pickups. The JDI is 10k, the Redye is 30k, etc. much lower than the DI on the FW-1804, but the DI on your interface is active, not passive.
Active DIs like the Radial J48 and Pro48 are only 220 ohms. Because they are an active design using 9v to buffer the signal, a transformer isn't involved, and they still capture the signal very well with less loading of the pickups compared to passsive DIs.
The DI on your interface is 680k, and it is active, not a passive transformer-based design. So you may find that is indeed a very suitable DI for your needs. I would try out the one you have first before discounting it as unusable.
Passive DIs have generally low impedance due to the transformer, but a lot of people still like using them with passive pickups. The JDI is 10k, the Redye is 30k, etc. much lower than the DI on the FW-1804, but the DI on your interface is active, not passive.
Active DIs like the Radial J48 and Pro48 are only 220 ohms. Because they are an active design using 9v to buffer the signal, a transformer isn't involved, and they still capture the signal very well with less loading of the pickups compared to passsive DIs.
The DI on your interface is 680k, and it is active, not a passive transformer-based design. So you may find that is indeed a very suitable DI for your needs. I would try out the one you have first before discounting it as unusable.
Pman
Member
i can't believe a thread about "prepping tracks for reamping" has lasted 7 pages already...
sorry...carry on lads.
sorry...carry on lads.
When a 9v battery has been drained to a certain point, the DI will start distorting. Using a 9v as the primary source of power is a bad idea for recording, but useful in live applications, if phantom power is unavailable, or you are at the end of some less than ideal snakes.
A 48v phantom power source ensures that the DI always has the proper power. I'd rather use phantom than a 9v wall-wart.
Mutant
I hate that supercow !
Darkening
Member
- May 15, 2007
- 99
- 0
- 6
i can't believe a thread about "prepping tracks for reamping" has lasted 7 pages already...
sorry...carry on lads.
Why are you so condescending all the time?
Your pictures are very nice. Cool profile shot. What were you looking at there? And what's with the face shots being cut off below the eyes? Do you think your eyes & eyebrows are really cool or something?
A lot of different people were helped in this thread.
Get over yourself.
Mutant
I hate that supercow !
it was a joke.. Mutant got it. Maybe you should find a sense of humor.Why are you so condescending all the time?
A lot of different people were helped in this thread.
Get over yourself.
it's so you can't see what i'm building.
ok... Darkening... you're new, so i'll cut you slack. you have signed to this forum this month, i've been here 5 years. i would suggest you take a bit of time to get to know the personalities here and the sense of humour of each person a bit before you take it upon yourself to attack their comments. it's a much more fun place that way. i know a great many of the people posting in this thread and talk to them often on AIM, Yahoo, and/or Windows Messenger so you are jumping to conclusions about my intent and how others here take my post when you are not familiar enough with the dynamc here to do so. trolling and petty personal comments wont get you far in this forum.
