Public enemy #1

[ColdDarkNord]

I don't think that american gover. have the right to put the nose into Iraq's inner politics. Saddam killed a lot of own ppl u said? So u wanna stop that process with killing ppl what left after his repressions with ur bombs? Nice idea, right! Why u always talk about 11 sept? Where is parallels between Iraq and twins catastrophe? At least you must show any evidence I think... Stop i saw one:

Sorry for my poor english.
..and
I have nothing vs american ppl u know, I have a lot of friends there but I don't like outter politics of american gov.

 

[ColdDarkNord]

And another thing. You absolutly forget what happened in Vietnam and you absolutly can't imagine what is middle east ppl. All their history its history of endless wars. When ur soldier will enter into the country hes gonna get knife from the back from any 10 years kid. We have that every day in Chechnya, so I know what Im talking about. Maybe Bush was fucked in the ass by any arabian guy in the school and now hes angry on whole arabian world? Who knows...

 

[~nightfall~]

Had bin Laden crashed an airplane into Oslo, we would have been the first nation summoned to help bail you out

Obvious, but did it ever strike the americans that this is the reason why they are targets for terrorists?? American government, military etc. always stick their nose up in every case where they have the chance to do so.

I'm an European. And I don't ascribe to nightfall's post. You're not talking for me.

Thank you for pointing that out. I never ment ALL europeans, I ment the majority. There`s always different ideas when it comes to stuff like this. No one can arrest me for stating that the majoity of Europe is against war though.

And it has happened countless times over the past 100 years. If it weren't for the United States, ALL of the Euro-ignorant, such as yourself, would wither be dead or speaking German.

Norway where never helped by US military forces during WW II, so this argument kills itself. And its not a good argument, even for the parts of Europe that DID get help. One should never expect France to take part in a war they don`t belive in, just because they where helped out themselves some 50 - 60 years ago. As far as I know, US military forces joined the war in the aftermath of the Pearl Harbour attack, and where never forced to go and die in Normandie.

Read some newspapers not written in America, and you`ll see my side of the story. Do you think its strange that I react to Bush saying in his speak "we are the best people in the world" (reminds me of Adolf Hitler) , do you ever get to hear about all the civilians you kill with your "accurate" bombs? Why do american government disaprove that americans are to be judged by the international court of justice in Haag?

 

[COnsiderateApathy]

i'm beggining to think that Osama Bin Laden did a great work.
Northamerican assholes. Get Killed!

Maybe you should consider the very real possibility that YOU are the ASSHOLE.

Speaking as one of the 'Northamerican assholes' as you call me... I am someone who has nothing to do with US Foreign policy, and I live my life in peace and the pursuit of music. I work hard for a living. I pay my taxes. I have a family that I love very much. Your hatred towards our entire nation is nothing short of shocking. Before you open your mouth next time, consider this.

The citizens of this nation are human beings just like yourself. We have hopes, dreams, fears, regrets. We love our parents. We love our children. We want to live our lives without the shadow of death looming over us.

For you to wish death upon ANYONE because of their government foreign policy is absolutely horrific. I do not hate Iraqi people. I do, however, believe that Saddam Hussein is a world threat and needs to be dealt with. He's had twelve years to do what he still refuses to do: rid his regime of weapons of mass destruction. Weapons that could be used on OUR families, OUR people, OUR nation. Our innocent civilians. Perhaps someday yours as well. It's just a matter of time.

There exists the very real potential in the coming few days of this nation undergoing severe terrorist attacks. People will die. Our families, our children, our livelihoods are at stake.

So excuse me if I say FUCK YOU to your statements wishing death on us all. You should be ashamed of yourself and your ignorant, hateful comments. And I sincerely hope that you never have to know what it feels like to be a civilian in the crosshairs of a madman.

 

[manuelgv]

We are all in the position,maybe,to say which world leaders are bad,but who put us in the position to take action and decide which ones should go and shouldn't?
So I guess now the next obvious target should be Bush since the world agrees he is a bad leader,maybe Europe should join forces and attempt a war or tell him to leave U.S. on 48 hours...

 

[Jim LotFP]

We are all in the position,maybe,to say which world leaders are bad,but who put us in the position to take action and decide which ones should go and shouldn't?

Hmmm, at least in the US, I believe the people who put Bush in his position are called 'voters'...

(... and before anyone says any crap about the 'controversial' election, the controversy and dispute ENDED when Al Gore conceded... if he had never conceded, then maybe you'd have a point, but he did, so Bush was completely legitimate at that point...)

 

[Villain]

Hmmm, at least in the US, I believe the people who put Bush in his position are called 'voters'...

As were those who chose Hitler to lead them back in 1930's.

-Villain

 

[Villain]

What peaceful solutions? I believe Bush gave Saddam 48 hours to leave to avoid war, right?

After Americans had bombed the country for 12 years in a row - really peaceful solutions indeed. And there's no way the Americans could pull back with the invasion now - even if Saddam decided to leave right now, they would find another excuse to attack and conquer the country very soon.

Yea... and took 3 different resolutions to the UN... Asked the US Congress and Senate for a vote.... Like Jim stated, 12 years later, we are still dealing with the problem. How does that not show diplomacy hasn't worked?

While you have constantly bombed Iraq. And this political playing does not differ the least bit from what Hitler did back in 1937-1938. Excuse after excuse is made to prevent all possibilities of peaceful solutions time and again. Can't you see that what France & co are doing is TRYING to find a peaceful solution! But Bush has undermined all their attempts - the UN inspectors could continue their work had not USA told them to stop. The head-inspector talked about months and Bush & co just decided that weeks should be enough for them - and when the inspectors said that they hadn't found anything in such a short time, Bush & co claimed that the inspections weren't working.

The fact is, Bush must do this war, as the institutions that bought him the presidency - American oil and military industries - need it to make shitloads of money. And if process of disarming Iraq goes well, Bush loses his excuse to attack. That's why he tries to push everyone else against the wall - with means very similar to those of Hitler in late 30's.

Tell me and I will stop revealing your lack of a thoughtful argument.

You should start it first.

Comparing Naziism to US Foreign Policy... yea, we throw millions of innocent people into labor camps and gas chambers. You are a complete and total dipshit and have ZERO idea what you are talking about.

Unlike you, I won't lower myself to the level of throwing personal insults because of your perceived ignorance. However, I tell you this:
1. The majority of the world's prisoners are in the USA, although only a very small amount of world population lives in there - the prisoner to citicen ratio of the USA is higher than that of any other country in the world.
2. Vast majority of those prisoners in USA belong to ethnical minorities, many of them convicted by a system that gives them no chance whatsoever to defend themselves in the court.
3. American prisons have extremely high mortality rates when compared to those of other civilized nations and their quality of living does not differ much from that of labor camp prisoners.
4. There are more executions in the USA than in any other civilized country.

Thus, in effect you are already having tens of thousands of innocent people on concentration camps - and you are murdering hudreds of them each year.

Your arguments are baseless and weak. Give up before you make a complete jag of yourself.

Wrong - unlike you I can back every single argument of mine up with information coming outside from the most powerful propaganda-machinery in the world.

-Villain

 

[Villain]

If we were so anxious and happy to go to war, why have we waited since October, when the President got Congressional approval to use force, to actually get to it? Why wait six months if we're so war-happy?

Why? To have the rest of the world out of your back, of course. This media-play of USA has already converted people like Aznar from Spain to your bloodthirsty side. Had the USA attacked Iraq back in October, the rest of the world could perhaps had had the strength to oppose Bush. Now it seems everyone (apart from the valiant France, Germany and Russia) is tired enough to buy the obvious fauxes made by the US government - like the "proof" that Iraq has any weapons of mass destruction.

-Villain

 

[Jim LotFP]

As were those who chose Hitler to lead them back in 1930's.

Yup. And late next year we'll see if Americans fire George Bush or re-hire him again. Maybe I'm not up on my history, but I don't think the Germans had the opportunity to vote for or against Hitler after he took power?

For the record, I didn't vote for Bush and would never vote for a Republican... I voted Libertarian and I think my guy came in fifth. heh

 

[Jim LotFP]

The fact is, Bush must do this war, as the institutions that bought him the presidency - American oil and military industries - need it to make shitloads of money.

Can't argue about the military contractors making money off of this, but again, how is more money going to be made off of oil with all this military expense as opposed to just buying it? If oil is the goal, why would Iraq be the means to get it?

Unlike you, I won't lower myself to the level of throwing personal insults because of your perceived ignorance. However, I tell you this:
1. The majority of the world's prisoners are in the USA, although only a very small amount of world population lives in there - the prisoner to citicen ratio of the USA is higher than that of any other country in the world.
2. Vast majority of those prisoners in USA belong to ethnical minorities, many of them convicted by a system that gives them no chance whatsoever to defend themselves in the court.
3. American prisons have extremely high mortality rates when compared to those of other civilized nations and their quality of living does not differ much from that of labor camp prisoners.
4. There are more executions in the USA than in any other civilized country.
Thus, in effect you are already having tens of thousands of innocent people on concentration camps - and you are murdering hudreds of them each year.

This is interesting... but I really think that people in prison are treated far too well. There should be NO quality of living if you're thrown in jail. No TV, no warm bed, no workout facilities. I think the death penalty should be applied to far more crimes (like rape...). As far as who goes to jail, I don't think nonviolent drug offenders should be in jail, but it's hard for me to become politically active in that area because I detest drugs and think people who do drugs are complete morons so I'm not going to get closely involved with any of those people... and it is hard to feel sorry for anyone jailed for such things anyway because they all knew the consequences if they got caught and it's not like drug use is protected under the Constitution anyway so they made their choice...

As far as the people in prison being minorities... I don't think it's so much race that is the issue, but income... poor white trash hardly has an advantage over inner city youth in our court system. But what are you going to do? And it's probably common sense that poor people are going to commit more crimes because A- they have less to lose for getting caught, and B- they're likely not very well educated in the first place and not very good decision makers or they wouldn't be poor... And then court appointed attorneys aren't going to be the best lawyers, because if they were they surely wouldn't work for the government...

One key problem of the justice system is the process of jury selection... NOBODY wants to be on a jury, so the people that are put on the juries are those too stupid to figure out how to get out of it. That was me last year (well having no life makes it hard to get out of juries because "A musician is calling from Germany tomorrow" isn't a valid excuse, hah), having my life interrupted for some waste of time trial that was thrown out because the twelve of us couldn't agree on anything. The jury really was 50% people dumber than a box of rocks and 50% pissed off that they even had to be there and thinking it's beneath them.

But the idea that we have 'tens of thousands' of innocent people in jail seems very unlikely to me.

 

[manuelgv]

What I mean Jim is that what if a nation leader turns out to be crap?
so all the people against him are gonna be called liberals and flamed everywhere?

 

[Ormir]

I was gonna post something on this thread but I was greatly disappointed with all this comments.
Yeah war stopped nazis,fascists and other stuff,but war also got them in power.

Actually the National Socialist party was democratically elected by a land slide victory, as well as Chancellor Adolf Hitler.

 

[manuelgv]

Yeah but war was that gave them full power
Hitler would have been just another Chancellor if he hadn't started WW2 wouldn't he?

 

[Timmeth]

Actually the National Socialist party was democratically elected by a land slide victory, as well as Chancellor Adolf Hitler.

Hitler was elected to a small spot. He killed his way to the top, to be historically correct...

 

[Timmeth]

Why? To have the rest of the world out of your back, of course. This media-play of USA has already converted people like Aznar from Spain to your bloodthirsty side. Had the USA attacked Iraq back in October, the rest of the world could perhaps had had the strength to oppose Bush. Now it seems everyone (apart from the valiant France, Germany and Russia) is tired enough to buy the obvious fauxes made by the US government - like the "proof" that Iraq has any weapons of mass destruction.

-Villain

Bloodthirsty ways? What falsehood...

Show me how bloodthirsty we are, then I can actaully take you seriously...

 

[Jim LotFP]

What I mean Jim is that what if a nation leader turns out to be crap?
so all the people against him are gonna be called liberals and flamed everywhere?

That's how politics works. It's not anything new with Bush.

Remember Clinton and his "right wing conspiracy" theories?

 

[Timmeth]

What I mean Jim is that what if a nation leader turns out to be crap?
so all the people against him are gonna be called liberals and flamed everywhere?

So you don't want to give the Iraqi people a chance of Democracy, even if it fails? Life's all about taking risks