Question about early black metal ideology

[Erik]

Cronos knows nothing. Theologians from Oslo are bound to know nothing as well.

Look. If you're looking at Norway in 1992 you cannot say "oh this is the BM ideology" because every band, every person had their OWN view on things. It was NOT anything like a UNIFIED IDEOLOGY. For this exact reason, bands tried seperating from each other by creating different labels for their music; MAYHEM EMPEROR and DARKTHRONE was BLACK METAL, IMMORTAL called themselves HOLOCAUST METAL, and ENSLAVED was VIKING METAL. Mayhem started the whole orthodox devil worshipping thing that is very "popular" lately... Burzum paved the path for NSBM and all the PAGAN METAL bands together with Enslaved. Mayhem, having basically started the whole movement, had no real interest in "passionate national pride" or "pre-Christian ideals". This emerged later, but was accepted because all the bands shared common goals. Only recently have some people started trying to extrapolate a shared core of beliefs across all the pioneering bands and call it "black metal ideology". The truth is that there wasn't one, but maybe 10.

 

[Ellestin]

I always assumed there was more boredom and gimmick than ideology involved, until other people took the trend up and contributed some actual research to the movement.

Also think that black metal is a genre that was pretty much thrown together retrospectively and helped give some exposure to bands which for the most part allegedly were playing death metal.

 

[KILL TULLY]

Well I know that the dudes in the scene back then really did do some crazy shit. I know one guy who is friends with Fenriz, lived with Hellhammer and Necrobutcher, hung out at Helvete back in the day, blahblahba. And he was talking about the old times and how the media did make shit up, but that there really where some crazy fuckin' kids.

 

[Erik]

And disregarding the fact that there wasn't a unified ideology per se, WHY did this happen? The time was right. I don't have a better answer. Norway was a pretty Christian society at the time, and being a country where the church has destroyed culture and oppressed people a lot, this was bound to happen. Someone was going to take Bathory and Hellhammer and take what they said and/or implied to new heights sooner or later.

 

[MadeInNewJersey]

Cronos knows nothing. Theologians from Oslo are bound to know nothing as well.

Look. If you're looking at Norway in 1992 you cannot say "oh this is the BM ideology" because every band, every person had their OWN view on things. It was NOT anything like a UNIFIED IDEOLOGY. For this exact reason, bands tried seperating from each other by creating different labels for their music; MAYHEM EMPEROR and DARKTHRONE was BLACK METAL, IMMORTAL called themselves HOLOCAUST METAL, and ENSLAVED was VIKING METAL. Mayhem started the whole orthodox devil worshipping thing that is very "popular" lately... Burzum paved the path for NSBM and all the PAGAN METAL bands together with Enslaved. Mayhem, having basically started the whole movement, had no real interest in "passionate national pride" or "pre-Christian ideals". This emerged later, but was accepted because all the bands shared common goals. Only recently have some people started trying to extrapolate a shared core of beliefs across all the pioneering bands and call it "black metal ideology". The truth is that there wasn't one, but maybe 10.

Ok, but then why is Varg on record as having said: "...The church is built on holy ground, a natural circle and a stone horg [a heathen altar]. They planted a big cross on the top of the horg and built the church in the midst of the holy place...the first church burned on the 6th of June, with the intention probably to light a flame, to put dried grass and branches on the coal and the fire to make it big. It's a psychological picture - an almost dead fire, a symbol of our heathen consciousness. The point was to throw dry wood and branches on that, to light it up and reach toward the sky again, as a growing force. That was the point, and it worked."

Perhaps I'm interpreting this incorrectly, but that sure sounds like pre-Christian belief ideology to me.

 

[Erik]

Also think that black metal is a genre that was pretty much thrown together retrospectively and helped give some exposure to bands which for the most part allegedly were playing death metal.

Huh yeah what? Pretty much all of Norway saw a huge stylistic shift from death metal to black metal around 1990 (Amputation -> Immortal, DM Darkthrone -> BM Darkthrone, Thou Shalt Suffer -> Emperor + Ildjarn, Phobia -> Enslaved, Old Funeral -> Burzum, Deathcrush Mayhem -> DMDS Mayhem) but that hardly means it was "thrown together retrospectively?" Black metal was very real in 1991, much more so than it is today.

 

[Erik]

Ok, but then why is Varg on record as having said: "...The church is built on holy ground, a natural circle and a stone horg [a heathen altar]. They planted a big cross on the top of the horg and built the church in the midst of the holy place...the first church burned on the 6th of June, with the intention probably to light a flame, to put dried grass and branches on the coal and the fire to make it big. It's a psychological picture - an almost dead fire, a symbol of our heathen consciousness. The point was to throw dry wood and branches on that, to light it up and reach toward the sky again, as a growing force. That was the point, and it worked."

Perhaps I'm interpreting this incorrectly, but that sure sounds like pre-Christian belief ideology to me.

Look. I said MAYHEM didn't have anything to do with it. Read again.

 

[MadeInNewJersey]

And disregarding the fact that there wasn't a unified ideology per se, WHY did this happen? The time was right. I don't have a better answer. Norway was a pretty Christian society at the time, and being a country where the church has destroyed culture and oppressed people a lot, this was bound to happen. Someone was going to take Bathory and Hellhammer and take what they said and/or implied to new heights sooner or later.

That makes perfect sense, actually.

 

[lizard]

people started trying to extrapolate a shared core of beliefs across all the pioneering bands and call it "black metal ideology". The truth is that there wasn't one, but maybe 10.

this is what I said and you called my post "crap"

 

[Ellestin]

Huh yeah what? Pretty much all of Norway saw a huge stylistic shift from death metal to black metal around 1990 (Amputation -> Immortal, DM Darkthrone -> BM Darkthrone, Thou Shalt Suffer -> Emperor + Ildjarn, Phobia -> Enslaved, Old Funeral -> Burzum, Deathcrush Mayhem -> DMDS Mayhem) but that hardly means it was "thrown together retrospectively?" Black metal was very real in 1991, much more so than it is today.

But that's what I said, I think (?)

 

[lizard]

kumbaya, motherfuckers....
we have germans speaking to americans speaking to swedes all in english about norwegians ~ bound to be some misunderstandings.

 

[MadeInNewJersey]

This thread deserves better than 1-star you fucks.

There is actually some very interesting stuff being said/learned, at least by me.

 

[Ellestin]

kumbaya, motherfuckers....
we have germans speaking to americans speaking to swedes all in english about norwegians ~ bound to be some misunderstandings.

There is NO fucking Germans in this thread so far.

[EDIT] Now there is

 

[lizard]

oh right you're a frenchman IN germany, richtig??

 

[JayKeeley]

This is good:

I really like the Burzum track on that one, "Ea Lord of the Deep".

 

[NAD]

 

[Nate The Great]

I wish Phyre was around here. He helped get me on the straight and narrow with some of the early 90's BM. He could explain everything.

I think he was from Nebraska or something . . .

 

[MajestikMøøse]

another thread gone down in flames. What a shame... eh... not really.

one star.

 

[MadeInNewJersey]

Your contribution ALMOST rescued it, too.