Rap/Hip Hop

same old song, same basic drum groove, same lyrical flow, same rhyme sequence

This displays a huge level of ignorance towards the genre imo. Same flow? Same rhyme sequence? How much hip hop have you actually heard?
Have you ever heard Madlib? Pharoahe Monch? Chip Fu? Jehst? Verb T? There are thousands of rappers and producers producing original, diverse and uneven beats, rhymes and styles.
People who have no depth of knowledge of metal say the same things about the genre as you have about rap.
 
Fine, show me, every song or every rap band that pops up on radio or TV is same ol same ol to my ears. Same phrasing, same emphasis on same syllabols.

I know all music is redundant after awhile so I dont need to be told that. But without melody the field is further narrowed.

I dont mind being "ignorant" to the music, it never appealed to me but I wanted STK or anyone else wanting to give a shot at expressing in musical terminology where all this potential and awesome music was.

I can find great grooves, lyrics, lyrical phrasing plus musicianship and melodic value in many other styles of music that reach so much further and touch so much deeper into the sensory system. I just didnt get that statement.
 
Fine, show me, every song or every rap band that pops up on radio or TV is same ol same ol to my ears. Same phrasing, same emphasis on same syllabols.

haha, it's nothing to me if you don't want to get into it, but you can't make statements on the genre based on what you hear on the TV and radio. That is not rap or hip-hop, it is pop masquerading as such.

It would be like forming an opinion on metal based on Korn or Slipknot.

The lyrical themes and delivery of proper rap are as diverse and deep as you'll find in any other genre, if not moreso. I understand people not enjoying rap, it doesn't appeal to everyone, but when sweeping derogatory claims are made based on a few artists that aren't even representative of the genre, it gets on my nerves.
 
That wasnt a good explaination for awesome music or most potential, thats all I was questioning, not "sweeping derogatory claims". You posted those last six lesser knowns ?? I've checks stuff out here and there, Im not basing everything on MTV which I never watch I was talking about other media sources like black movie soundtracks, random concerts and live performances.

Better let STK just address my interestest in how he figures theres lots of potential. Thats all I want to know, Im not looking for a arguement that has no explaination. I want to know where this potential is hiding.
 
That wasnt a good explaination for awesome music or most potential, thats all I was questioning, not "sweeping derogatory claims". You posted those last six lesser knowns ?? I've checks stuff out here and there, Im not basing everything on MTV which I never watch I was talking about other media sources like black movie soundtracks, random concerts and live performances.

Better let STK just address my interestest in how he figures theres lots of potential. Thats all I want to know, Im not looking for a arguement that has no explaination. I want to know where this potential is hiding.

I'm not arguing for it's 'awesome music' or 'most potential', merely taking issue with this statement you made:

"What am I missing here ? 20 + years and for the most part I just hear the same old song, same basic drum groove, same lyrical flow, same rhyme sequence, melody is out"

That is the sweeping derogitory claim I am referring to. How you can claim that is beyond me, even if you are just looking here and on the radio.
 
There would be some stuff you like in this genre razoredge.

There is one song Crack the Sky did sometime in the 90's or 00's that has awesome music behind it, the rap is still just rap but all in all a decent song, made only by the backing music. No links sorry, I was going to post it a few weeks ago but no one has it up.
 
I'm not arguing for it's 'awesome music' or 'most potential', merely taking issue with this statement you made:

"What am I missing here ? 20 + years and for the most part I just hear the same old song, same basic drum groove, same lyrical flow, same rhyme sequence, melody is out"

That is the sweeping derogitory claim I am referring to. How you can claim that is beyond me, even if you are just looking here and on the radio.

Not derogitory, just what I hear. You posted the last 6 songs, minimal difference there to my ear. Im not here to pick apart songs, I just want to know where the great potential is, thats all, OK ?
 
There is one song Crack the Sky did sometime in the 90's or 00's that has awesome music behind it, the rap is still just rap but all in all a decent song, made only by the backing music. No links sorry, I was going to post it a few weeks ago but no one has it up.

I see that you like funk music, so I can see you liking lot of the rap beats since they are sampled from funk bands.
 
Tadaa, thus a important factor of my adversion to rap, sample, repeat, repeat, repeat. Where most any music I have always listened to goes somewhere. If I can listen to great funk why cut it short.
 
What am I missing here ? 20 + years and for the most part I just hear the same old song, same basic drum groove, same lyrical flow, same rhyme sequence, melody is out.

In all seriousness, Razor, saying that is exactly like saying that metal has been the same since, say, Judas Priest, or that rock music hasn't changed at all since Def Leppard. The intracicies of rap through the ages may not be apparent to you but it's gone through the waves and modifications that any style of music has. You can even see the contrast by merely following the career of one artist. Listen to Dr. Dre's first important group, NWA, and you have an archetypal slab of beefy 1980s rap, with (among other things) less complex rhymes, more shouting, and a street atmosphere with much beefier instrumentation -- simpler, harder hitting beats. Then listen to anything off of his solo debut album from the early 90s and you have a very marked shift to smooth instrumentations with slick organ fills replacing bombast, a lounge feel and much more relaxed rapping. Then listen to something off of his second album, which came out near the end of the 90s, and you'll find a vastly stronger digital presence, relatively smooth vocals with a little restored bombastic edge. All the modifications and permutations of rap are clearly defined and labeled based on their attributes and assigned a subgenre name, like with any genre. I'm sure as hell no expert on rap, but I could tell a G-Funk song from an old school rap song and a modern indie rap song within seconds.

Could you possibly explain in words what is musically awesome about it and where the high potential is ?

I'm thrilled that you asked, sir. Firstly, "music" to me is absolutely not synonymous with "instrumentation." But since I suspect you were refering to instrumentation, I'll only briefly explain my view that rap has the highest potential for lyrics out of any genre. Simplistic beats provide a stark highlight to focus one's attention on the words to a superior extent than the melodic cushion provided by lyrical folk (which I would consider the second best vehicle for lyrics). Imagine Bob Dylan as a rapper -- 10 page songs would become 50 page songs!

Furthermore, rap provides an infinitely more personal perspective than just about any other form of music. This is done not only the in style of singing/rapping which is more informal and natural than all-out singing, and through the content typical to rap music. Rap lyrics are infinitely more self-aware, overtly personal and autobiographical than just about any genre you could ever find. The content of rap songs innately features personal information and interpersonal anecdotes as well as the opportunity for artists to espouse their history and their beliefs in a wholly straight-forward manner. As a result, in terms of image and position, rap artists can do in a few stanzas what other genre artists would have to spend years cultivating through their lifestyle and interviews. Do they squandor this potential? In my opinion, yes, by mostly casting themselves as 2-bit thugs. But someday rap will be more liberated and the full potential will become evident.

As for the music, you don't think digital song building has any potential? Me, I find it a fascinating process. It's like creating a collage, and the end result is as musical as anything else. You can take things and give them a whole new life, a whole new meaning. This, to me, is often more interesting than making something that's "original" but still sounds just like everything else. It's the same method Led Zeppelin used, they're basically the original samplers. Rap music has vast potential because it can incorporate anything with a touch of a button. You can combine any genres and change any atmospheres.

And the way that it mingles with the rapping is interesting to me. It's basically the same as any type of rock or folk or funk or what-have-you. You have an instrumentation and a lyric. Are rap instrumentations simpler? They're about as simple as orthodox folk or punk. It's lyrical music. How the music is made means nothing to me, it's still a rockin' groove to bob your head to. 'Course I could ramble on, but we're talking about music. So if I can't show it to you in songs, then we're obviously at an impasse.



Listen to Nuthin' But a G Thang. Doesn't it sound bright and warm? Obviously on Youtube it sounds thin as crap, but wouldn't it sound absolutely gorgeous being performed by a full band in a live setting? Does it not have music just like anything does?





Check out Aesop Rock. Isn't his music rich and soothing? I can't understand half of what this guy ever says, I doubt his lyrics even make sense, but his rapping is so damn melodic.

All in all, though, I find rap absolutely captivating because it is a highly unique and autonomous form of music. I've been listening to rock and blues and all of that for years. Rap gives me a new form to discover and dissect, and that's worth a hell of a lot to me. It's not the same as the other stuff I like and... that's sort of what I like about it.

Well, I did my best. I'm not so great at writing but I believe I got my point across.
 
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well you know Im still searching for my pinnacle of discerning dynamics

I have to say though that I dont agree with much of what "STK" has said, too much of it seemed to cut other music short. Probably for me theres just not enough going on being a proggy, fusion, funky assed 70's brat with a bad case of the blues.

I'll listen to those later, long weekend working at my buddies down in Jersey, Im tired.
 
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The first 3 songs are some of the best music I have ever heard...Strong will continue is classic. Amazing Reggae anthem with sick Verses.