Rap/Hip Hop

[razoredge]

Razor, as great as he was, you can't give Hendrix the credit for everything.

He did have a vocal and rhyme attack much like rap in some songs. In fact in the black community around the 70's or possibly earlier "rap" meant to sit around and talk. But yes I MUST give Jimi credit for everything...

You cant argue that Zappa wasnt a rappa ?

I heard another song just recently that I already forgot about again that was very much rap vocally though perhaps a bit more melodic

You cant deny Nugents double live gonzo introduction to Great White Buffalo was top shelf rap ?

Perhaps Dr Suess (sp?) was the origional rapper ?

 

[SouthernTrendkill]

Bob Dylan invented rap, duuuuuuh.



But anyway I was just thinking about how an Immortal Technique vid somebody posted on this forum (maybe even this thread?) a couple years ago is what got me into him. Can anybody reccomend me another rapper with as overt a message and point as Immortal Technique? I get so tired of rappers who just rap about anything and everything, I love how Immortal Technique is completely focused with his purpose. There are a lot of other rappers who rap about consequential issues like Technique, but I haven't heard anybody with half as much solidarity. I've checked out the usual suspects like Jedi Mind Tricks and Atmosphere...

p.s., went back and checked the early pages of the thread. Panzerfaust's the one who did it! Thanks for getting me into one of my favorite artists, man! I think he may have convinced me to get that Darkthrone album, too....

 

[razoredge]

Thats it!, twas a Dylan song

How about Hot Rod Lincoln ? Alices Restorant ? LOL Rap invented by country hillbillys, foshame, foshame

 

[Satanstoenail]

He did have a vocal and rhyme attack much like rap in some songs. In fact in the black community around the 70's or possibly earlier "rap" meant to sit around and talk. But yes I MUST give Jimi credit for everything...

You cant argue that Zappa wasnt a rappa ?

I heard another song just recently that I already forgot about again that was very much rap vocally though perhaps a bit more melodic

You cant deny Nugents double live gonzo introduction to Great White Buffalo was top shelf rap ?

Perhaps Dr Suess (sp?) was the origional rapper ?

Perhaps you should stick to talking about things you actually know something about eh? Rapping actually dates all the way back to Africa, but more recently to jazz/beat poetry. All this came well before Hendrix, Zappa and Dylan.

 

[razoredge]

Those old Africans could do repetative English rhymes ? See now I didnt know that.

Yep didnt think about beat poetry, but I was only questioning and thinking of early examples anyhow. Thanks for contributing that.

In modern popular music however I believe my boys beat the ghetto to it and did so with taste, style, musical ability plus ventured into other musical avenues rather then beating it into the ground.

Another early example would be the auctioneers call, I dont know how far back that dates. Im not sure if they had all the arm gestures down or if they used the proper amount of "yo" and multiple repeating rhymes.

Well its been interesting thinking back to various early examples, took little time and thats about all it deserves. I'll continue to enjoy black musicians who put it out there and dont dwell on a tired pop ghetto culture.

 

[Unfaithfully Metalhead]

As I started growing and found who I was (musically), I always thought to not like rap. But, for the last few months I have just goofed around and would play it. Like, when I play some Xbox Live or drive around or just hangout. But, I been really digging Bone Thugs N Harmnoy and Chip Tha Ripper.

I like some rap, mainly the big names like Tupac, Biggie, Dr. Dre, Snoop, H.O.P. etc.

 

[Unfaithfully Metalhead]

Perhaps you should stick to talking about things you actually know something about eh? .

 

[Badbird]

.

 

[razoredge]

He did have a vocal and rhyme attack much like rap in some songs. In fact in the black community around the 70's or possibly earlier "rap" meant to sit around and talk. But yes I MUST give Jimi credit for everything...

You cant argue that Zappa wasnt a rappa ?

I heard another song just recently that I already forgot about again that was very much rap vocally though perhaps a bit more melodic

You cant deny Nugents double live gonzo introduction to Great White Buffalo was top shelf rap ?

Perhaps Dr Suess (sp?) was the origional rapper ?

these were simple questions but the answers didnt come, it was just food for thought on first examples similiar to rap voicings that I heard nothing more

. backattcha

 

[Matt]

Lately I've been liking Lemonade by Gucci Mane and Swag Surfin by FLY.

 

[Satanstoenail]

these were simple questions but the answers didnt come

I don't think Zappa was a rapper, nor have I ever heard of any rappers being influenced by him.

I don't think Dr. Suess was the original rapper, nor have I heard of any rappers being influenced by him, but hey, who knows, maybe kids in school who ended up rappers were influenced by him in some way.

I don't know the Nugent song you speak of, but I'd wager it isn't rap and has nothing to do with rap in any way whatsoever.

I also don't think Hendrix was a rapper, he may have influenced rappers in some small way, but nowhere near as much as someone like Kool Herc.

There you go.

 

[razoredge]

So what is rap then if what Zappa did (at times) was not ?

The Nugent thing was just him introducing a song with fast speach and rhyme, very much like rap but then he breaks into the riff and moves on. **I cant find this on the Double live Gonzo CD, so I'll need to ask my drummer where I remember it from.

Hendrixs song "Wait till Tomorrow" is somewhere part way between sung and spoken, has the rapid humorous and rhythmic ryhme flow. Castles Made of Sand is similiar as well. Most of the album Axis highlights the influence Dylan had on him lyrically and vocally. I think he (JH) was a master of partly sung yet spoken at the same time.

I really wouldnt know what influenced the actual rap genre or its first recorded examples. I'd have to say it would be hard to tell but they do sample quite a bit of other music. My guess would be it came primarily from street talk.

Kool Herc one of the beat poets ?

Just so its clear I only entered into this subject due to that song I previously mentioned I recently heard that got me thinking how similiar it was in voicing to rap and then these other examples I mentioned. So hows abouts we keep the nasty out of it... being how I see the king of troll has arrived

 

[Satanstoenail]

So what is rap then if what Zappa did (at times) was not ?

You'd have to provide specific examples of Zappa rapping for me to understand. I wouldn't describe any of what I've heard of his stuff as rap, but then again I haven't heard bucketloads of his stuff either.

The Nugent thing was just him introducing a song with fast speach and rhyme, very much like rap but then he breaks into the riff and moves on. **I cant find this on the Double live Gonzo CD, so I'll need to ask my drummer where I remember it from.

Hendrixs song "Wait till Tomorrow" is somewhere part way between sung and spoken, has the rapid humorous and rhythmic ryhme flow. Castles Made of Sand is similiar as well. Most of the album Axis highlights the influence Dylan had on him lyrically and vocally. I think he (JH) was a master of partly sung yet spoken at the same time.

Ok.

I really wouldnt know what influenced the actual rap genre or its first recorded examples. I'd have to say it would be hard to tell but they do sample quite a bit of other music. My guess would be it came primarily from street talk.

Kool Herc one of the beat poets ?

Kool Herc is the guy who people like Grandmaster Flash and Afrika Bambaataa cite as being the true creator of hip hop.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kool_Herc

"Campbell's announcements and exhortations to dancers helped lead to the syncopated, rhymed spoken accompaniment now known as rapping."

Just so its clear I only entered into this subject due to that song I previously mentioned I recently heard that got me thinking how similiar it was in voicing to rap and then these other examples I mentioned. So hows abouts we keep the nasty out of it...

Ok because from how it looks you entered into this thread to tell us that "Hendrix and Zappa are the only rappers worth listening to", and considering they aren't actually rappers, perhaps you can understand that those of us who love the genre might find that comment a tad annoying.

I wasn't trying to be nasty, it just seems that you don't actually know anything about rap/hip hop, so coming in here telling those of us who do how "your boys" were doing it better before it actually existed kinda makes you look a bit, y'know, silly.

 

[Unfaithfully Metalhead]

perhaps you can understand that those of us who love the genre might find that comment a tad annoying.

I wasn't trying to be nasty, it just seems that you don't actually know anything about rap/hip hop, so coming in here telling those of us who do how "your boys" were doing it better before it actually existed kinda makes you look a bit, y'know, silly.

 

[Matt]

Frank Zappa has never done anything that constitutes rap or anything that might have preceded it.

 

[razoredge]

You'd have to provide specific examples of Zappa rapping for me to understand. I wouldn't describe any of what I've heard of his stuff as rap, but then again I haven't heard bucketloads of his stuff either.

He delved into rhymed rhythmic spoken word on both Overnight Sensation and Apostrophy albums

Ok because from how it looks you entered into this thread to tell us that "Hendrix and Zappa are the only rappers worth listening to", and considering they aren't actually rappers, perhaps you can understand that those of us who love the genre might find that comment a tad annoying.

and why I said " just my opinion of taste of course."

Yes they were more than just rappers and applied spoken word musically different but I wanted to throw the names out there because I believe its relevent to acknowledge they touched ground into something that later became entirely focused and popular

I wasn't trying to be nasty, it just seems that you don't actually know anything about rap/hip hop, so coming in here telling those of us who do how "your boys" were doing it better before it actually existed kinda makes you look a bit, y'know, silly.

That was said after you said I didnt know what I was talking about.

Yes I do not know a damn thing about the actual current genre of rap according to rappers and songs and "whats up" but I am correct about the various places I mentioned useing rhythmic and rhymed spoken word prior to the popularity of what has since been refered to as rappin.

The line between hip hop and rap is blury to me, I suspect its become more blurry as time progressed ? I like the funk grooves of what I think is hiphop but become tired of most of the rest involved with rapping. What always stood out most to me was the timing of the kick drum accenting, perhaps thats just in certain songs. It sounds like that is what Kool Herc focused on with his "break" method.

 

[Badbird]

You'd have to provide specific examples of Zappa rapping for me to understand. I wouldn't describe any of what I've heard of his stuff as rap, but then again I haven't heard bucketloads of his stuff either.







Ok because from how it looks you entered into this thread to tell us that "Hendrix and Zappa are the only rappers worth listening to", and considering they aren't actually rappers, perhaps you can understand that those of us who love the genre might find that comment a tad annoying.

I wasn't trying to be nasty, it just seems that you don't actually know anything about rap/hip hop, so coming in here telling those of us who do how "your boys" were doing it better before it actually existed kinda makes you look a bit, y'know, silly.

razoredge wouldn't know any shit about rap/hiphop.

 

[Unfaithfully Metalhead]

razoredge wouldn't know any shit about rap/hiphop.

 

[Satanstoenail]

He delved into rhymed rhythmic spoken word on both Overnight Sensation and Apostrophy albums

I meant like a link or something, but cool, thanks. If I ever come across those albums I'll be sure to listen for some rap action.

and why I said " just my opinion of taste of course."

Yes they were more than just rappers and applied spoken word musically different but I wanted to throw the names out there because I believe its relevent to acknowledge they touched ground into something that later became entirely focused and popular

Well ok, but what do you expect to happen when you come in here dissing the genre from the get go.

That was said after you said I didnt know what I was talking about.

Yes, it was. I don't see how that's relevant though.

Yes I do not know a damn thing about the actual current genre of rap according to rappers and songs and "whats up" but I am correct about the various places I mentioned useing rhythmic and rhymed spoken word prior to the popularity of what has since been refered to as rappin.

There are much better examples of early influential work that actually had something to do with the evolution of the genre. For example Debbie Harry was rapping on "Rapture" really early on, apparently it was the first "hit" to involve rapping, and Blondie were certainly not a rap act.

The line between hip hop and rap is blury to me, I suspect its become more blurry as time progressed ? I like the funk grooves of what I think is hiphop but become tired of most of the rest involved with rapping. What always stood out most to me was the timing of the kick drum accenting, perhaps thats just in certain songs. It sounds like that is what Kool Herc focused on with his "break" method.

I always think of it as hip hop = the music and rap = the vocals, but yeah you are correct, the line does blur.

 

[razoredge]

I meant like a link or something, but cool, thanks. If I ever come across those albums I'll be sure to listen for some rap action.

You'll have to forgive me here and roll your eyes but I cant again because NOW I just had my computer rebooted and have no player installed and am technology challenged. Should be getting it straightened out by Monday night. Im going from decades old memory and will have to go to youtube myself and sort through to find examples. The albums were my friends, I never owned them or any Zappa. And remember Im only talking spoken (rapped out) rhyme not the musical style that I made clear from the beginning

Well ok, but what do you expect to happen when you come in here dissing the genre from the get go.

Sorry but I though we were cool when you busted my balls about always trying to give Hendrix credit for everything, I thought it was funny anyhow. I will also find link for Wait till tomorrow its one of my favorites for its sense of humor, and his smooth vocal delivery, that character he had and quirky DR Suess style rhyme... perhaps you already know it or checked it out ? Its even a bit funky R&B style

Yes, it was. I don't see how that's relevant though.

Not to you... is to me

There are much better examples of early influential work that actually had something to do with the evolution of the genre. For example Debbie Harry was rapping on "Rapture" really early on, apparently it was the first "hit" to involve rapping, and Blondie were certainly not a rap act.

Not fimiliar, was never a big fan, just passing radio music

I always think of it as hip hop = the music and rap = the vocals, but yeah you are correct, the line does blur.

Thats what I was figureing but initially there was more seperation or difference am I right ? With hip hop being far more musical (instrument wise) than early rap which was primarily just drum beat and "rapin" ? Perhaps depended on the artist, Im just going from memory of what I was exposed to along time ago. I did always love that break dancing, very talented/athletic. Like I said I like the groove but am so tired of the rap, it literally all sound the same to me, I can hear those that do it better but its still the same formula, over and over and over. I imagine rock sounds all the same to those into rap and for the most part it is, same as the blues, country, pop, solidly defined metal sub genres... fair enough