Re-opening the Nebula for cabs discussion
- Thread starter Ermz
- Start date
cobhc
Amiga Enthusiast
Lol, what's got you in a mood man? That dildo up your ass a little too deep this evening?
Hey dude, chill a bit.
giancarlo took the time out of a busy schedule to come down and help us. The least he deserves is a bit of respect.
The niggles with Nebula's interface are fairly well documented across a number of boards. I think the main problem is that it shows layman users more options than they want to be seeing.
FWIW, the interface he posted up there is quite simple if you just take a breath and look at it for a second. The most consequential controls are the gains and the frequency boost controls. I can't even see any Q widths, the ability to change center frequency, filters, slope types etc. About 80% of the EQ plug-ins I own are more 'involved' than that. You just have to get your head around their way of structuring things.
Besides, from what I hear, the DocFear eq is currently the best analogue-emulation EQ in the digital domain.
AeternusEternus
Member
- Oct 8, 2008
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cobhc
Amiga Enthusiast
I'm sorry, but two years experience in recording hardly makes you an expert, infact I would only class a small percentage of this forum as true experts.
I agree that Dodos original post wasn't very mature, but your reply wasn't exactly mature either, both of you just chill out and try and get along, and maybe it's better for you to not voice your opinions in this manner, leave that for PM's!
Back on topic, I appreciate your information on this giancarlo. Briefly agreeing with Dodo I think the LCD type screen that was in the screenshot you posted may be a little confusing for some, I think a simple preset name/number would suffice as you already have frequencies and the amount of db cut and boost as values under each control, octave width and input and output levels could go under the corresponding input and output controls. I also agree with Ermz in the sense that it wasn't really THAT confusing, but obviously the easier something is to understand, the easier it is to use!
Please don't take any of this to heart both Aeternus and Dodo, I'm just trying to clear the air in the hope that we can get this thing off the ground as I'm really excited about the possibilities.
Thanks again guys for keeping this afloat.
Edit: Quote deleted as per Aeternus' request.
I agree that Dodos original post wasn't very mature, but your reply wasn't exactly mature either, both of you just chill out and try and get along, and maybe it's better for you to not voice your opinions in this manner, leave that for PM's!
Back on topic, I appreciate your information on this giancarlo. Briefly agreeing with Dodo I think the LCD type screen that was in the screenshot you posted may be a little confusing for some, I think a simple preset name/number would suffice as you already have frequencies and the amount of db cut and boost as values under each control, octave width and input and output levels could go under the corresponding input and output controls. I also agree with Ermz in the sense that it wasn't really THAT confusing, but obviously the easier something is to understand, the easier it is to use!
Please don't take any of this to heart both Aeternus and Dodo, I'm just trying to clear the air in the hope that we can get this thing off the ground as I'm really excited about the possibilities.
Thanks again guys for keeping this afloat.
Edit: Quote deleted as per Aeternus' request.
AeternusEternus
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Hey, you should delete that quote from your post. Let's stay on track here. I PMed him the reply, we don't need to have that here. That's my bad.
cobhc
Amiga Enthusiast
Deleted the quote, but my post still stands, think a little before you blow off like that. And giancarlo I can't even begin to imagine how Nebula works, but the concept really really interests me!
AeternusEternus
Member
- Oct 8, 2008
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Nevermind. I tried defending Giancarlo, deleted the public bit and made it private, and I'm still catching flak. I'm not bothering to help on this.
Maybe you guys can convince the guy you all bought Nebula for to do a little bit of work towards it. I'll be lurking the forums from now on.
Maybe you guys can convince the guy you all bought Nebula for to do a little bit of work towards it. I'll be lurking the forums from now on.
cobhc
Amiga Enthusiast
Fair enough then, you seem to be taking things far too personally, but that's entirely up to you, night guys. I'll catch up on this when I get up, hope to see some progress and some more info from giancarlo!
well, at the moment we have a monopoly: maybe the best software equalizer around (sampled by a 3rd party developer) and one of the cheapest prices around (20 eur and you get a 9 gigabytes library, hundreds of emulated devices). We are alone in the market, featuring a dynamic "volterra" technology which I think it's the future (convolution and dynamic convolution are a bit outdated), so our sells are still good.The product is not for masses, we know it very well.
The price is the interface: it was born several years ago and we didn't developed it further because we were interested in the sampler, in the engine and in the library. We spent 1 minute for the gui and 20 hours for the engine.
There will be a product with a simplified interface and it will be expensive. We are already working on that. I think simplification has a cost. Think to IPOD. A simplified mp3 player with no controls and features (even a radio player is missing), expensive, for masses. Other MP3 players were cheapear and full of features. Today we'll open a thread between our customers, we are looking for designers because we need an help for develping better our products.
= experts of nebula. Someone who uses nebula for all the tracks, replacing other plugins (we have a lot of customers who did it or even sold their UAD cards) = you don't need to know its meaning for the first time you try it.
But don't attack me in that way. I'm not doing it for money (I spent a lot of money on this project), I'm not forcing you to use my products and honestly I'm here because I was invited to post here.
I'm not even interested in advertising nebula. If you sample something maybe I'll use your samples for doing music and I'll be happy.
giancarlo,
thank you so much for participating, anything you can contribute is extremely valuable to this forum.
I think the GUI is actually quite fantastic in its versatility. I believe most people look at it and disregard instantly as it dosen't look like its hardware counterparts which is a shame because it is quite simple to learn in 5 minutes if you actually play around with it.
What is so fantastic about this GUI and needs to be understood is that where all other GUI's control one piece of equipment Nebula can control any number of virtual equipment you wish to throw at it, i.e. Reverbs, Eq's, Compressors, Tape Saturation, Effects, Guitar Cabinet IR's etc. So the GUI needs to be versitile. The benefit is that even though you may sometimes have controls in Nebula assigned to nothing... you only have to learn 1 GUI to control hundreds or thousands of pieces of virtual equipment. Traditionally you would have to learn 100 different GUI's for a 100 different vst's. Now that in it's own right is worth all the eye sores in the world.
I hope that this discussion develops further as i think Nebula is a fantastic piece of software/tool and could still promise to fill that last 10% of quality where standard IR convolution falls. Please don't disregard this forum just because one or two people here don't understand the complexity involved in committing to such a project as you have. Most of us know you can't just 'wack' a new gui on it by drawing it up in MS paint and copying and pasting it into word and typing "cout<<new GUI for Nebula; int[] new_buttons = { 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8}; while new_buttons do".
I have faith in your product, and i think you can compare it to something like FMR's Really nice compressor/preamp. They put all the quality into the parts (the important bits), not the cosmetics or presentation... and have developed a succesfull and fantastic product.
Best of luck for the future.
thank you so much for participating, anything you can contribute is extremely valuable to this forum.
I think the GUI is actually quite fantastic in its versatility. I believe most people look at it and disregard instantly as it dosen't look like its hardware counterparts which is a shame because it is quite simple to learn in 5 minutes if you actually play around with it.
What is so fantastic about this GUI and needs to be understood is that where all other GUI's control one piece of equipment Nebula can control any number of virtual equipment you wish to throw at it, i.e. Reverbs, Eq's, Compressors, Tape Saturation, Effects, Guitar Cabinet IR's etc. So the GUI needs to be versitile. The benefit is that even though you may sometimes have controls in Nebula assigned to nothing... you only have to learn 1 GUI to control hundreds or thousands of pieces of virtual equipment. Traditionally you would have to learn 100 different GUI's for a 100 different vst's. Now that in it's own right is worth all the eye sores in the world.
I hope that this discussion develops further as i think Nebula is a fantastic piece of software/tool and could still promise to fill that last 10% of quality where standard IR convolution falls. Please don't disregard this forum just because one or two people here don't understand the complexity involved in committing to such a project as you have. Most of us know you can't just 'wack' a new gui on it by drawing it up in MS paint and copying and pasting it into word and typing "cout<<new GUI for Nebula; int[] new_buttons = { 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8}; while new_buttons do".
I have faith in your product, and i think you can compare it to something like FMR's Really nice compressor/preamp. They put all the quality into the parts (the important bits), not the cosmetics or presentation... and have developed a succesfull and fantastic product.
Best of luck for the future.
abyssofdreams
knows what you think.
I didn't see your initial post but judging from your reaction you should rethink your decision. Just because some shit starts flying doesn't make you or any other person around here a bad one. Think of all the positive feedback you got for your previous efforts
In the long run we all will hopefully profit from this. If you said something that (occasionally) was inappropriate or something just stand behind it and move on. It is very much human to react indiscreet or even too sensitive at times, happens to everyone
It's not that we don't appreciate your contribution.
AeternusEternus, PLEASE DON'T GIVE UP ON THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
your previous efforts have been fantastic. if you could join the nebula beta team and sort out this cab sampling problem once and for all we can move from the realm of false metal 2d guitar cabs into the valhalla of true metal 3d REAL sounding cabs. don't listen to any negative voices on this forum!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
your previous efforts have been fantastic. if you could join the nebula beta team and sort out this cab sampling problem once and for all we can move from the realm of false metal 2d guitar cabs into the valhalla of true metal 3d REAL sounding cabs. don't listen to any negative voices on this forum!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
well, just to make things clear I agree with you when you describe our interface a nightmare.
We said so many times, we were not interested in the interface, so we used something similar to the kurzweil K2000 concept. In such interface you could add easily parameters without caring to much about them.
The interface of nebula really is very simple, you have 8 knobs and they are good for each possible preset. When we'll remove the LCD screen from the interface the workflow will be straightforward.
We said so many times, we were not interested in the interface, so we used something similar to the kurzweil K2000 concept. In such interface you could add easily parameters without caring to much about them.
The interface of nebula really is very simple, you have 8 knobs and they are good for each possible preset. When we'll remove the LCD screen from the interface the workflow will be straightforward.
AudioGeekZine
arsehole know-it-all
What about the ability to make your own "skins"? Custom GUIs that load with your sample set? Like a synthmaker kinda thing? Give us the user the ability to design their own GUI if he needs one to look like hardware.
I'm just guessing based on DSP knowledge and reading what Nebula does. Read some papers by Angelo Farina, particularly one about real-time not-linear convolution -- I forget the exact name, but it's something like that. Basically, after deconvolving a logarithmic sine sweep, you have the linear impulse response, but then the harmonics precede it at predictable intervals, so it's possible to extract the higher order impulse responses, and do some math to make it into a Volterra kernel. I think that's part of the equation. This technique works well for memoryless nonlinearities.
The other part, from the description Giancarlo wrote, is a technique employed by some other companies, including Focusrite (they make some mic preamp that uses this). The technique is to capture impulse responses at different amplitudes, then to switch between them based on the amplitude of the input. This works for compressors and the like.
yes exactly. We added the dynamic dimension and the time dimension to the original model. You could use a dimension or not. You could have many samples, each for each possible combinations of knobs -> you get equalizers. Nat samples the envelope follower and other things -> you get compressors.
Here nebula is working as compressor, and it is tested directly in nat. As you can see there is a BIG advantage. The interface is the same for compressors, equalizers, reverbs.... you map the 8 knobs in your preferred touch fader mixers and you use your hands!!! for everything: it could be a filter, an eq, a reverb, a phaser, a compressor. Look at the list... we have hundreds and hundreds of incredible emualations, and everything is ready for being played. The sound quality is imho awesome, in many categories nebula is maybe the best processor around, because things are SAMPLED. Other companies are just solving the electric schema, with a lot of simplifications. We are sampling it, taking in account harmonic distortion, dynamic behaviour, time behaviour (eg cyclic effects like flangers, chorus, phasers), user variables (knobs, faders, buttons, controls)
Here nebula is working as compressor, and it is tested directly in nat. As you can see there is a BIG advantage. The interface is the same for compressors, equalizers, reverbs.... you map the 8 knobs in your preferred touch fader mixers and you use your hands!!! for everything: it could be a filter, an eq, a reverb, a phaser, a compressor. Look at the list... we have hundreds and hundreds of incredible emualations, and everything is ready for being played. The sound quality is imho awesome, in many categories nebula is maybe the best processor around, because things are SAMPLED. Other companies are just solving the electric schema, with a lot of simplifications. We are sampling it, taking in account harmonic distortion, dynamic behaviour, time behaviour (eg cyclic effects like flangers, chorus, phasers), user variables (knobs, faders, buttons, controls)
