Seriously people...

[JayKeeley]

if you DENY that Enter Sandman and Nothing Else Matters are totally dumbed down and made-for-radio in comparison to Fight Fire With Fire or EVEN, yes EVEN THE GIRLY SONG I DON'T LIKE MUCH Fade to Black, then I dunno what to say

Yes, they're dumbed down compared to what's on "Justice", but how can you say otherwise about any Metallica record?

J cited an example of how he figured out how to play "Nothing Else Matters" on the guitar - you could do that with 90% of Metallica songs. First song I ever learned (by ear) was "Seek and Destroy" and I must have been playing for about a day.

You're referencing "Fight Fire with Fire" because you know it to be one of their more complex songs. You're cheating! I'm not sure how "Escape", "Seek and Destroy", "Sanitarium", and tonnes more aren't any less 'dumb' than "Through the Never", "Holier than Thou", or "Struggle Within".

From what I remember, Metallica HATED the way "Justice" sounded. It was too tinny, as you know. They wanted to get a 'fuller' sound out of the black album and they loved the sound of Motley Crue's "Dr Feelgood". This was all thanks to Bob Rock. It had a "wall of sound" feel to it, just as the black album does. Just listen to "Sad but True" or "God that Failed" as examples of how fucking heavy that Em chord sounds. It is pummeling compared to the recording on "Justice", which might as well just be seeping out your tweeters.

If you watch the two making of videos (in fact, you only need to see the first one), you can pretty much see them just laying down the tracks as they themselves wrote them. It's a pretty interesting documentary.

I do admit that songs like "Blackened" and "Dyers Eve" are touger to play than their usual shit, but it's hardly like going from Darkthrone to Death.

 

[JayKeeley]

If you can play+sing Battery you're better than me

If you think that's impressive, you should see what Dave Mustaine plays + sings. Or Chuck Shuldiner. Or that dude in Pain of Salvation, even if their music is boring.

 

[Crimson Velvet]

Or Abbath! That guy tremolo picks likes a frikkin' tremolo-machine!

 

[Crimson Velvet]

Which are only, like, the two single most important things in music.

That thought struck just after I posted, and I sorta hoped no one would take notice.

 

[NAD]

Concerning Mustaine, that dude is (or was at least) one of the most amazing guitarists in history in terms of chops. A lot of the stuff he arranged was mind boggling, and then when you realize it's not 2 or 3 guitar harmonizing but JUST HIM it just makes you wet yourself. Or it did me rather.

His solos aren't the most technical or the best, but they are the angriest I've ever heard. You know a Mustaine solo when you hear it because you can see the blood dripping off the walls. Insane stuff.

 

[NAD]

Well, in that case I respect 'Maiden far more for writing SEVENTH SON OF A SEVENTH FUCKEN SON, the best album they EVER wrote, after "destroying arenas" for 10 years.

See? Wasn't that fun?

 

[JayKeeley]

Erik - I agree 110% that their more interesting music is derived from the first four albums, but I just don't think that the black album is necessarily any 'dumber' that some of their other stuff. It's less creative that's for sure.

Here's my overall take:

- Justice comes out
- Harvester of Sorrow single is released, and it sells pretty well
- One is released with a video - 2 versions (full length and "radio edit" haha) - it's a screaming success
- Metallica tour the world on the Justice tour, get burned out
- Black album is recorded in 10 months - going back to a simpler song style
- The tours are sold out even before the album is released - they're on top of the world, next to Maiden and Ozzy
- They release more singles, shitty unadventurous videos using live footage, except for the deranged video for Unforgiven
- Lars starts to wear that white leather jacket and hang out with Axl Rose
- Time off, come back with image consultant, cigars in mouth, cut hair, rock music, expensive MTV videos

Like I say, I tend to agree with the real old-schoolers who thought "One" was the turning point, or the majority that see "Load" as a cash cow.

For some reason, the black album was just caught up in the mayhem that would have happened anyway, seeing as they were just so f'ing big already.

 

[JayKeeley]

His solos aren't the most technical or the best, but they are the angriest I've ever heard. You know a Mustaine solo when you hear it because you can see the blood dripping off the walls. Insane stuff.

That is why Marty Friedman was the PERFECT second guitarist. It was love vs. hate. Just listen to those trade off's in "Hangar 18" or "Go to Hell" for crissakes!!! That right there is Revelations chapter 17!!!

 

[JayKeeley]

So basically, Metallica died with Cliff, they just decided to make one more half decent album as to not make it so obvious.

I'll buy that for a dollar!

EDIT: All of a sudden the Jason Newsted fans come out the woodwork..."but listen to him on Flotsam and Jetsam", yeah yeah, listen to this. *fart*

Metallica were at their peak when Cliff, Mustaine, Hetfield, and Ulrich were together. "Kill 'em All" songs would have been exactly the same -- this is fact based on what they were playing live before they got signed, but the solos would have been better -- and "Ride the Lightning" would have gone from a 9.75 to a 10/10.

 

[Dev]

Metallica didn't sell out (I bet the Black Album was done 99.99% under Bob Rock's influence), they made the albums they wanna make and they were not very good (Load , Reload) . St.Anger was a therapy according to their DVD "Some Kind of Monster" ; well I don't care if it's not good I leave..

 

[NAD]

That is why Marty Friedman was the PERFECT second guitarist. It was love vs. hate. Just listen to those trade off's in "Hangar 18" or "Go to Hell" for crissakes!!! That right there is Revelations chapter 17!!!

Seriously, matchups that great don't happen often. And both just such absolute wizards, fuck me I think Friedman takes a dump with more emotion than me on my best day in front of a stack of Ampegs and a crowd of titties.

 

[JayKeeley]

No! Where would they be today without teh awesome Trapped Under Ice verse riff stolen from Exodus?

Seriously, think about all the Mustaine riffs from "Killing is my Business"!!!!! Just imagine if he came with that arsenal to the "Ride the Lightning" sessions!!!!! AARRGGHH!!

EDIT: Of course, not that Hetfield could keep up. :Smug:

 

[NAD]

You know what's weird about Metallica never being a technical band is that they've had two of the most AMAZING bassists in metal's history: Cliff and Robert Trujillo. I know most of you are familiar with how great Cliff was but probably not Trujillo. I still impress people by playing the verse riff to Violent and Funky by the Infectious Grooves, that dude is such a monster player, and now he's stuck playing St. Wanker material.

 

[JayKeeley]

and now he's stuck playing St. Wanker material.

It was a $1m signing fee. Think about it.

 

[NAD]

It was a $1m signing fee. Think about it.

True. Shit I'd probably do it for a cheeseburger, but I'm a sell out.

 

[Hell Mike]

True. Shit I'd probably do it for a cheeseburger, but I'm a sell out.

I'd do it if I just got to have a few words with the boys, kick their asses a bit, take all their money away and leave em with a few crappy amps and a broken drum kit and some KRAFT DINNER in a garage somewhere. And vodka. And a tape recorder.

 

[Crimson Velvet]

and now he's stuck playing St. Wanker material.

Actually, on the last tour, they played a maximum of three songs a set from "St. Anger". Even they know it's bad.

 

[JayKeeley]

True. Shit I'd probably do it for a cheeseburger, but I'm a sell out.

Man, your whole barter system is based on the prison metric.

 

[KILL TULLY]

http://www.contactmusic.com/new/home.nsf/webpages/metallicax12x06x03

 

[JayKeeley]

I hope you lot realize that 99.9999999% of the time, I will NEVER click on a fucking URL unless it's got some explanation as to why I need to click it.