Seriously people...

[JayKeeley]

Allow me to illustrate with a graph:

So you're actually saying that Metallica went in to record the black album, with the pre-meditated understanding that they were going to make radio friendly music? Yes, they said that they didn't want to make another "Justice" just because it was too complex, so they wanted to simplify. [Before you say, "see see! they dumbed down their music", it's not as if Ride the Lightning is any more complex than the black album].

I don't get it -- Metallica were already on top of the world, even before their black album was released, so I think I'd tend to agree more if you said they sold out with "One".

 

[Crimson Velvet]

I'd have to agree with Jay. Metallica were already indredibly popular, and would've most likey become extremely rich, even if the black album had turned out ot be another "Puppets". Instead, they did what they wanted, and made old man's metal. No biggy. Just don't buy their records.

 

[NAD]

So Guns n' Roses are thrown into the mix with Winger, Poison, et. al.? That's fucking sad, Guns were an EXCELLENT rock/metal band in their prime. Talk about emotion and just plain balls. Even their slick stuff from the Illusion albums still had the great raw vibe at the same time. Sex Metal. RAWK.

I'd have to agree with Jay. Metallica were already indredibly popular, and would've most likey become extremely rich, even if the black album had turned out ot be another "Puppets". Instead, they did what they wanted, and made old man's metal. No biggy. Just don't buy their records.

That's it right there.

 

[Erik]

it's not as if Ride the Lightning is any more complex than the black album

...

So you're actually saying that Metallica went in to record the black album, with the pre-meditated understanding that they were going to make radio friendly music?

Even if they didn't, I'm sure Bob Rock took care of that part for them

<James> Oh but can I have a little thrash riff? Just this one?
<Bob> NO FUCKING WAY.

 

[Crimson Velvet]

Faster doesn't necesarily mean more complex, Erik.

 

[JayKeeley]

Well, I guess it depends on how shit you are at playing guitar. If you can play the black album, you can play Ride the Lightning. Trust me.

 

[NAD]

The only complex stuff Metallica ever did was on Justice, and even that wasn't very tough. Shit I even learned a bunch of the tapping guitar solos when I was eleventeen.

Kill 'em All, Lightning, and Puppets are all beginner guitar stuff. Good stuff, but hardly complex. Shit ain't Megadeth, foolz.

 

[Erik]

Faster doesn't necesarily mean more complex, Erik.

No, well, I guess you're right, I forgot about that awesome bass solo that rivals "Call of Ktulu" smack bang in the fucking middle of the two-chord radio hit "Nothing Else Matters" MY BAD!

 

[NAD]

No, well, I guess you're right, I forgot about that awesome bass solo that rivals "Call of Ktulu" smack bang in the fucking middle of the two-chord radio hit "Nothing Else Matters" MY BAD!

Guess which one I can play by ear and which one I have to use the sheet music to figure out.

 

[Hell Mike]

If you can play+sing Battery you're better than me

 

[J.]

so did Megadeth sell-out with COuntdown, Youthanasia or Risk? Or did they sell-out buy making a comeback record? you know, making a record so all the old fans will come back and buy their album?

I'm not accusing, I'm just curious how you all see this.

I'm gonna go mow the lawns now, and I expect dissertations on this shit when I get back. Graphs work too.

 

[J.]

I know shit about guitars or how to play them, but I learned the main riff or notes or whatever to Nothign Else Matters within an hour. On my own no less.

 

[NAD]

Megadeth got old just like Metallica. Mustaine was doing old man rock for awhile, then fell off the wagon and got all pissed off like he once was, and that's how The System Has Failed was born. Honestly the only real mellow 'deth album was Risk, Cryptic Writings had some old skool moments, and The World Needs a Hero was pretty metal, it just sucked is all.

 

[Crimson Velvet]

When I started playing guitar, I learned all the Metallica stuff first. Some credit to Hetfield for playing "Puppets" flawlessly (most of the time) with downstroaks only, while singing, though. I sure as hell can't do that!

 

[Erik]

OK this is straying from what's relevant... it's true that Metallica never were complex in the SUPER TECHNICAL GUITAR way (though anyone who can play Dyers Eve or Blackened rhythm guitar flawlessly while singing gets my vote for very decent guitarist) but that's absolutely beside the point anyway, because in no way does simple to play equal commercially viable (Darkthrone) or the other way around (I'm sure there's some pop shit that's way tough to play, but I don't generally listen to complete feces like Chaos AD and Britney Spears so I wouldn't know) -- if you DENY that Enter Sandman and Nothing Else Matters are totally dumbed down and made-for-radio in comparison to Fight Fire With Fire or EVEN, yes EVEN THE GIRLY SONG I DON'T LIKE MUCH Fade to Black, then I dunno what to say

 

[Erik]

Dave realised that playing stuff like "Risk" actually didn't get him money like he had hoped, because it alienated his fanbase; "Hmm", thinks Mustaine, "maybe if I write some tired rehashes of past glories I can fool some people into thinking Megadeth is good again and make some cash."

and that's how The System Has Failed was born

 

[NAD]

What was Hetfield, 36 when the Black Album came out? If I could come up a riff as badass as that after 10 years of destroying arenas around the globe while getting ready to go over the hill, I'd pat myself on the back and then probably choke it. Twice.

EDIT: Whoops, I guess he was 28. Well whatever, the 10 year arena destruction still stands. :Spin:

 

[Erik]

...Metallica destroyed arenas in 1981?

 

[Crimson Velvet]

Oh, and while we're at that whole "technicality thing", let's discuss "Kill 'Em All"; the simplest thrash album ever. The only thing that album had going for it was originality and an aura of honesty.

Which I guess only furthers the evidence that "sell-out" isn't measured in technicality.

 

[NAD]

It's called rounding, it's fun and you should try it some time.