Still using your i5?

I was all about the i5 on guitar cabs for a while, but lately it seams I pick the 57 every time. Could be that I use my Mesa Traditional cab more than the oversized now. I could see the 57 matching up better with the Trad. cab and the i5 better with the oversized.

What's you current opinion, i5 or 57?
 
i know you probably dont want to hear this but...

direct! microphones are EVIL lol

doesnt have to be a pod, i have great results with just going preamp or fx send out into a direct box then cab simulator as an insert

if i want to save cpu, i record the track with the cab simulator insert placed on the input channel
 
Well, normally I would talk shit at this point... but you get some killer tones so, expand. :)

What does your chain look like?
Do you pull tone from the FX send or the speaker out with a power soak?
What DIs do you use?
Convolution amp sim. or plugin amp sim.
Do you sample your own cabs?


i know you probably dont want to hear this but...

direct! microphones are EVIL lol

doesnt have to be a pod, i have great results with just going preamp or fx send out into a direct box then cab simulator as an insert

if i want to save cpu, i record the track with the cab simulator insert placed on the input channel
 
Dave, I too have been going with the 57 over the i5... so much in fact that I traded my i5 to Egan on this forum for another 57.

I've got the Oversized Mesa cab, and it really just sounds too harsh/scooped/thick in the bottom end, compared to the 57.
 
Well, normally I would talk shit at this point... but you get some killer tones so, expand. :)

What does your chain look like?
Do you pull tone from the FX send or the speaker out with a power soak?
What DIs do you use?
Convolution amp sim. or plugin amp sim.
Do you sample your own cabs?

guitar -> amp -> fx send -> direct box (great river, or any di box) -> interface

if you're looking to get the power stage in the tone, as opposed to only the pre stage, then yeah use a power soak, but i never have
and obviously you need the head hooked to a cab somewhere so you dont blow the head

i usually either use either the built in direct box on the mackie 800r, or the great river. great river will add that "iron" to the tone, because of its transformer, but this is not essential to doing this method. i did this method with a firepod for a long time before i got decent gear.

the plugin i use for the cab simulation is made by waves, its called waves gtr. you use the "2 cab mono" one, and you bypass the amp section. then you choose 2 seperate different cabs, and 2 different microphones (for mono amp channel). you get on axis and off axis choice placement, along with volume for each microphone serving as your "mix" persay. if you wanna get tricky, you can mess with the stereo versions of the 2 cab, by routing the mono input to a stereo track, and loading the stereo 2 cab plugin as an insert. you wont be able to record it this way, but you can always render later (with decent computer, you can monitor with low latency in nuendo). but this plugin puts a beating on your cpu when you get to 4 geetar tracks.

its really that simple, get your signal around -3 db into the interface, and then when you throw the cab sim on, you'll probably have to use the master out (turn down) to avoid clipping. bass is a bit touchy here, so make sure you really have it set how you want it on the amp, then go a tiny hair lower. seriously.

you'll get some fat tones (royer emulation is one of the mic choices), and the playing / sound with be very detailed and defined. and just like any real cab, you'll have to use a high and low pass filter during mix.

another trick is to do the same thing, but using a pod, and turning the cab sim off on the pod, and using the waves cab sim instead.

i dont mic guitar amps because a long time ago i tried on like, 15 different bands and had all bad tones. the day i started doing direct, things started sounding right to my ears. even though i have lots of label work, i dont really consider my self anything special. i just have my own methods that work well. maybe thats all that matters but, if i were to go into a big studio, im sure i'd be screwed when it came time to do guitars. haha. but then again, i dont have a lot of pre's to mess with.
 
That sounds cool. Would be killer for tracking if nothing else. Do you do a lot of post eqing and stuff to your cab simed tracks or just mild tweaks?

This kinda brings up something else I've often thought about but never tried. Back in the day, before I knew about Tube Screamers, I used to do a lot of processing to DIs before I sent them back to the head. EQ, compression, sometime a little C4. I haven't done that much since I've benn using a TS but, what about the Pre out. What about two stages or reamping. First stage sends the DIs to the head and records the Line out. Second stage sends the preamp output to the power stage and to the cab. Pretty much inserting your whole workstation in the heads FX loop. Tweak your tone before the cab.

Anyone ever tried this?

guitar -> amp -> fx send -> direct box (great river, or any di box) -> interface

if you're looking to get the power stage in the tone, as opposed to only the pre stage, then yeah use a power soak, but i never have
and obviously you need the head hooked to a cab somewhere so you dont blow the head

i usually either use either the built in direct box on the mackie 800r, or the great river. great river will add that "iron" to the tone, because of its transformer, but this is not essential to doing this method. i did this method with a firepod for a long time before i got decent gear.

the plugin i use for the cab simulation is made by waves, its called waves gtr. you use the "2 cab mono" one, and you bypass the amp section. then you choose 2 seperate different cabs, and 2 different microphones (for mono amp channel). you get on axis and off axis choice placement, along with volume for each microphone serving as your "mix" persay. if you wanna get tricky, you can mess with the stereo versions of the 2 cab, by routing the mono input to a stereo track, and loading the stereo 2 cab plugin as an insert. you wont be able to record it this way, but you can always render later (with decent computer, you can monitor with low latency in nuendo). but this plugin puts a beating on your cpu when you get to 4 geetar tracks.

its really that simple, get your signal around -3 db into the interface, and then when you throw the cab sim on, you'll probably have to use the master out (turn down) to avoid clipping. bass is a bit touchy here, so make sure you really have it set how you want it on the amp, then go a tiny hair lower. seriously.

you'll get some fat tones (royer emulation is one of the mic choices), and the playing / sound with be very detailed and defined. and just like any real cab, you'll have to use a high and low pass filter during mix.

another trick is to do the same thing, but using a pod, and turning the cab sim off on the pod, and using the waves cab sim instead.

i dont mic guitar amps because a long time ago i tried on like, 15 different bands and had all bad tones. the day i started doing direct, things started sounding right to my ears. even though i have lots of label work, i dont really consider my self anything special. i just have my own methods that work well. maybe thats all that matters but, if i were to go into a big studio, im sure i'd be screwed when it came time to do guitars. haha. but then again, i dont have a lot of pre's to mess with.
 
guitar -> amp -> fx send -> direct box (great river, or any di box) -> interface

if you're looking to get the power stage in the tone, as opposed to only the pre stage, then yeah use a power soak, but i never have
and obviously you need the head hooked to a cab somewhere so you dont blow the head

If you take the signal from the fx send, the power section are completly bypassed so you can put your master where you want but it changes nothing on your sound.
I use a dummy load and I record from Fx send (master at 0). My savage have a line output and with this output the power section works. But if you have only the fx send...
 
guitar -> amp -> fx send -> direct box (great river, or any di box) -> interface

if you're looking to get the power stage in the tone, as opposed to only the pre stage, then yeah use a power soak, but i never have
and obviously you need the head hooked to a cab somewhere so you dont blow the head


So lemme get this straight...


You hook the cab's fx send out to the interface and then to a cab and record only that?

I'm gonna be buying a head for gigging and such, i onbiously cannae mic it in the house as it stands, so a cab would be a bit of a waste of money and when i tour, There'd be cabs there.

So if i buy this 5150, all i need is that, hook it to a crappy cab on a low volume and record the rpeamp out?

Is that how you got the tones on your Mysapce??
 

That has got to be one of the best mics for capturing the crunch and mids of an amp...

I think It may be great to mix with a more bassy mic or with some post EQ to suck some mids to make it sound more "metal". But I really love the crunch it captures.

I read the spec info on the mic... freq. responce 80Hz-17kHz. That explains the lack of low end. (shure sm57 -> 40Hz-15kHz).

What a great mic... I'm gonna get myself one as soon as I have the money.

Thanks Keiffer u rock
 
Cool...

I bought the ATM650 without a test drive, but it turns out to be an excellent cab mic. I'm definitely sold on this mic. I like the i5, but always feel like somethings missing (same with the e609S) and my 57s are somewhat honky.

the ATM650 is easier on the bottom than the i5, but that's a good thing.

note that it's hyper-cardioid, which is nice in live applications.
 
I read the spec info on the mic... freq. responce 80Hz-17kHz. That explains the lack of low end. (shure sm57 -> 40Hz-15kHz).

No it doesn't. There's nothing going on in a typical guitar setup below 80Hz. Most cab speakers only do down to 70Hz-80Hz anyway.
 
No it doesn't. There's nothing going on in a typical guitar setup below 80Hz. Most cab speakers only do down to 70Hz-80Hz anyway.

i see your point but...

the speaker freq. responce is one thing, the room factor is another.

As an example: take the casters off a cab (or lay it on the side) and it will resonate with the floor/room and add low end to the sound.

The mic will pickup the difference although the speaker reproduces the same freq. range.

take care!