Still using your i5?

[metalkingdom]

i see your point but...

the speaker freq. responce is one thing, the room factor is another.

As an example: take the casters off a cab (or lay it on the side) and it will resonate with the floor/room and add low end to the sound.

The mic will pickup the difference although the speaker reproduces the same freq. range.

take care!

Still doesn't matter. Close micing eliminates nearly all of the room sound. The mic may (or may not) get some of that resonance, but below 80Hz ain't happenin'. Most folks who know how to mix will cut out low freqs below 80Hz on guitars anyway.

Bust out an 808 kick drum and mess with the tuning...then you'll hear those ultra lows. Guitars don't do that. Learning and discerning freqs takes a lot of practice. It gets really tough around 125Hz and below.

 

[J.DavisNJ]

Dave, a bit off topic but I had a question. I go to my SM57 all the time, and have an AE3000 to try out. where do you position your AE3000 when micing guitar cabs?? thanks.

-Joe

 

[JBroll]

They do start dropping around 120Hz, but I don't know if I'd go as far as saying that it 'ain't happening' - tune to Eb and you're just below 80Hz; tune to B and you're almost at 60Hz. Of course there's more important stuff higher up, and there tends to be a 15-20dB drop between the fundamental and first octave of a guitar that's tuned down a lot, but I'd assume that there would be a noticeable difference between a drop-C with a high-pass at 60 and a drop-C with a high-pass at 80. I have no problem with high-passing bullshit away, but I never really considered the fundamental of a guitar not tuned down to W to be something that needs to go until it got in the way of the kick and bass.

As for the original question... I dropped the transformer in my 57 and haven't looked back, and that takes it more into i5 territory than 'standard' 57 sound to my ears. On top of that I use an i5 in a dual-mic setup with the 57 for clarity, on clean sounds, and on solo-type sounds. I like them both.

Jeff

 

[metalkingdom]

tune to Eb and you're just below 80Hz; tune to B and you're almost at 60Hz.

Ummmm...not quite. The low octave of A is 220Hz - 7 string.

 

[JBroll]

For a standard tuned guitar, A440 would be the second octave above the A string, or the fifth fret of the high E string. A220 would be the first octave of the A string, A110 would be the fundamental. A55 would be the fundamental of the low string of a seven-string tuned down a whole step, or a six-string tuned down a fifth. The lowest string on a six-string is around 82.4Hz.

Jeff

 

[VH100R]

Still doesn't matter. Close micing eliminates nearly all of the room sound. The mic may (or may not) get some of that resonance, but below 80Hz ain't happenin'. Most folks who know how to mix will cut out low freqs below 80Hz on guitars anyway.

Bust out an 808 kick drum and mess with the tuning...then you'll hear those ultra lows. Guitars don't do that. Learning and discerning freqs takes a lot of practice. It gets really tough around 125Hz and below.

dude you can't consider just the isolated speaker as your source system.
You have to understand that that speaker thru a cab+room will give a different signal with different properties.

get some V30 and put them in a marshall and in a mesa cab. Which one is gonna get more low end? the mesa obviously... but why? the speaker is the same they all should be the same right? No...

now take a look: Celestion's specs fot the G12T75. See the frequency range?

now take a look of what I got analysing the closed miked signal using a sm57 in a marshall cab with g12t75.

Does that seem limited to the 80-5000Hz range to you?

 

[metalkingdom]

Ah, yeah... The specs back up what I said. Some of you guys should get an oscillator and listen to what low frequencies really sound like. You'll need some monitors that can actually reproduce them, though.

 

[JBroll]

He is right that in marketing you would want to note where the response drops significantly and not the lowest/highest response possible - a 30db/octave drop is pretty much the end of that speaker's range, by our standards.

I don't think too many speaker/sub or decent monitor setups are completely incapable of reproducing a 60hz sine wave, and a DAW's frequency generator is capable of producing (at least from the software's end) as pure a sine as one can get. Wouldn't say that people don't know what low frequencies sound like, but that's just me.

Jeff

 

[metalkingdom]

Wouldn't say that people don't know what low frequencies sound like, but that's just me.

Unless you have or have access to a really nice studio monitor system - and the room has been tuned by someone who really knows their shit - you're most likely not gonna hear those freqs correctly.

 

[Mood Bender]

Spec sheet frequency range lists the cutoff frequencies which are defined as the frequency where the level is down 3dB. This does not in any way relate the amount of power output/capability/response beyond this frequency. the Q of the system at this end determine the Slope of the cutoff. this can be -6db/oct, -12db/oct and so on. the steeper the slope, the greater the cutoff, but generally at the expense of phase shift.

referring to the FFT graph above, the size of the Window determines what the low end looks like graphically. hopefully that was analyzed with the biggest Window possible for the highest low end resolution

while it's true that large full-range monitors generally have lower and better frequency response, its not true that smaller monitors do not produce any energy in the lower register. many smaller monitors are ported to extend the low end at the expense of harmonic distortion.

 

[sorceron]

i was using the i5 for guitars for a while but for my tastes the 57 always sounds better on my stuff. i ended up selling my i5 on ebay recently.

 

[metalkingdom]

while it's true that large full-range monitors generally have lower and better frequency response, its not true that smaller monitors do not produce any energy in the lower register. many smaller monitors are ported to extend the low end at the expense of harmonic distortion.

Eh, thanks for the lesson bro.

 

[egan.]

Unless you have or have access to a really nice studio monitor system - and the room has been tuned by someone who really knows their shit - you're most likely not gonna hear those freqs correctly.

The bold red part of the quote is fucking critical.

 

[daveotero]

Yea man. I had my cousins friend Jimmy tune my room. Man, you throw in the Snoop Dog and is fuckin BUMPS!!

That dude's all good at tunein rooms.

The bold red part of the quote is fucking critical.

 

[daveotero]

Pretty much just like a 57 or any other dynamic. Sometimes I'll move in a little closer to the center of the dust cap. The ae3000 can handle it with out getting harsh.

Most of the time I'll phase align and just mix it in a little, around 15db under the 57. But go nuts with it, I have used it as my main tone source before. It's a pretty cool mic. I have 3 and use them often.

Dave, a bit off topic but I had a question. I go to my SM57 all the time, and have an AE3000 to try out. where do you position your AE3000 when micing guitar cabs?? thanks.

-Joe

 

[egan.]

Yea man. I had my cousins friend Jimmy tune my room. Man, you throw in the Snoop Dog and is fuckin BUMPS!!

That dude's all good at tunein rooms.

Why do you need a dude when auralex already knows what's wrong with your room and can sell you a box of shit to fix it?

Seriously tho Dave,
Quit dogging the i5. I just got the fucking thing a week ago.

 

[daveotero]

Haha, dude don't worry. Why just the other day I had this stack of papers. I put the i5 on them and they didn't move at all. Not even a little bit. They we're totally weighted down really well.

Seriously though, the i5 is a killer mic with tons of uses. It kicks ass on cabs, just not my thing lately. I still use it all the time on snare, top and bottom. My goto dynamic when I want something a little bigger than a 57 would give me.

Why do you need a dude when auralex already knows what's wrong with your room and can sell you a box of shit to fix it?

Seriously tho Dave,
Quit dogging the i5. I just got the fucking thing a week ago.

 

[J.DavisNJ]

Pretty much just like a 57 or any other dynamic. Sometimes I'll move in a little closer to the center of the dust cap. The ae3000 can handle it with out getting harsh.

Most of the time I'll phase align and just mix it in a little, around 15db under the 57. But go nuts with it, I have used it as my main tone source before. It's a pretty cool mic. I have 3 and use them often.

Cool, thanks Dave I'll have to experiment more. I noticed it can get quite fizzy so I'm lookin for a sweet spot.

-Joe

 

[metalkingdom]

Man, you throw in the Snoop Dog and is fuckin BUMPS!!

I aim to please.

And just to make y'all jealous, I've been fortunate enough to watch the one and only Bob Hodas tune mix rooms many times.