Survey: which way do you lean on each political issue?

Kiss my ass.
This made me laugh a lot.

As usual I agree with everything Dodens said. I'm glad it was him not me fielding that argument because I'm a little fuzzier when arguing about economic things. I don't have too much more to add, but I just urge the people against "the forced redistribution of wealth" whether making everything fair and free (this isn't possible in reality but just pretend) is more important than alleviating people's suffering.
 
I don't believe government should maintain a social construct by which an enormous percentage of its populous is inherently disadvantaged, so we can't win 'em all, can we? I favor forceful redistribution, if that is the diction you wish to use to convey just how evil it is, over forceful and systematic repression (see, I can use scary phrases too).

Impossible, though not a horrible idea. It would really tricky how to go about doing that. Would the government take certain amounts based on income or take a the same amount from everyone who makes over set wage?
 
Money trickles both ways. There's a certain philosophy behind capitalism, and it's the philosophy that I believe works best. When we start making exceptions we risk relinquishing more control than we previously anticipated. I don't trust any government with that much control. I realize this is a "slippery slope" argument; but it does work that way.

I'm not saying capitalism sucks or anything. But really, money does not trickle down in any significant way. Contrary to popular belief, rich people don't go around blowing massive wads of cash. Instead, the people who sit at the top of the corporate food chain continue collecting part of the money spent by the lower classes and sticking it away. This is why the top 1% controls 40% of the wealth (trusting Dodens' numbers, if not quite accurate they're more or less accurate). And so vastly more money trickles up than down. Can we agree on this?
So, if you tax the rich and put that money into social programs that help the poor, only then does the money "trickle down"
 
Mathiäs;7624004 said:
Impossible, though not a horrible idea. It would really tricky how to go about doing that. Would the government take certain amounts based on income or take a the same amount from everyone who makes over set wage?

Uh in case you hadn't noticed we've been talking about tax policy for a while now.
 
First off, it already fucking happens, and it's not going to change.

Second, as long as there aren't rampant poverty problems in the country in question (and there aren't in the U.S.), it's not going to put a significant dent in the wealthier people's wallets.

Third, we're talking about saving lives and preserving people's health in exchange for a minor, almost unnoticeable inconvenience to the wealthy. As Dodens said, the free market is not a level playing field, and it's only fitting to ask those who have benefited so greatly from it to help ensure that those who are left behind aren't suffering or dying for it.

I don't really consider what happens now to be forceful redistribution of wealth. Something like saying someone has a house that is too big, so they are mandating that they have to let other people live with them is forceful redistribution of wealth. Though, I don't think having 70% tax rates are beneficial either.
 
Here's a little project to stimulate political discussion about the upcoming election in a more organised manner on the forum. Everyone go to this webpage:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compar...presidential_candidates,_2008#Economic_issues
Then read through the table, and for each of the issues listed (those you have something to say about, anyway), state which Presidential candidate you support on it (if any), how strongly you support him, and then give a brief explanation of your answer. Please use bold headers to make things more readable. If you don't have an opinion on an issue, leave it out of your answers. I did my answers on an either/or basis between the two major candidates, but you can include minor ones if you want.

Also, if anyone finds any glaring inaccuracies or omissions on that Wikipedia page, let me know and I can make an addendum of errata in this post.

Oh, and if you're not American... eh... I guess find a similar page corresponding to your country if there's an election coming up there.



Trade
Obama, strongly.
Human rights and environmental protection are far more important than putting more money in American businesses' hands.

Health Care
Obama.
A 15% uninsured rate is unacceptable, and a move toward universal health care will both save money (see http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/gmd-social-forum/400892-who-you-going-vote-9.html#post7337857 for explanation) and prevent suffering, as evidenced by the success in all other developed countries.

NASA
Either.
This is so not a priority for our country right now.

Taxation and Budget Deficit
Either.
The budget situation is a disaster right now, and there's not going to be much wiggle room for the candidates regardless of their philosophies. Both seem like pretty fiscally responsible guys (and the shit Obama gets for advocating universal health care is completely unwarranted). What disappoints me about both candidates is that neither seems to be talking about the FairTax idea.

Social Security
McCain, barely.
I'm really torn on this issue, since on one hand it represents charity for the incompetent, and on the other hand I acknowledge that without it many people would have miserable lives in their elderly years, and that it's not necessarily one's own fault to be undereducated about finance. I do believe, however, that Social Security should allow for more individual input, or else it just feels like dictatorship over one's money. My main reservation about McCain (or any Republican who talks about privatising Social Security) is that what they really intend to do is do away with the mandatory payment altogether, but I can't imagine they could even come close to advocating that without being denounced as heartless, ruthless elitists.

Network Neutrality
Obama, completely.
This is one of McCain's most idiotic and irresponsible positions. That he could even consider putting capitalism over civil liberties is nothing short of disturbing.

Arab-Israeli Conflict
Either.
Is this issue even controversial? Fuck having a bunch of rabid Islamic extremists run rampant over the only halfway-decent country in that whole area.

Iraq
McCain.
Although I would have sided with Obama on this if it only concerned the initiation of the war, he's made it pretty clear that he has little concern for gauging our presence in Iraq on Iraq's own stability. And as much as pacifists like Obama may consider our occupation more of a threat to world peace than a benefit, it's hard to deny that having a well-established military presence in the middle of a terrorist hotbed is a huge strategic advantage against the Islamic dictatorships.

Iran
Either.
While I like Obama's emphasis on diplomacy, I trust McCain more to approach the issue with the necessary opportunism and (if needed) aggressiveness. I'm not sure how those two qualities balance out, really.

Environment
Obama.
This seems to be an issue he's thought about a lot, and I'm actually a little eager to see what he could get done as President to increase our country/world's sustainability. And although I will admit that McCain's one of the more environmentally-conscious Republicans out there, he still can't be trusted not to put financial concerns ahead of our planet's future.

Energy
Either.
Both candidates seem to have plenty of the right ideas for managing the upcoming energy crisis.

Homosexual Marriage
Obama.
Only because I've read that he at least supports homosexual civil unions (I have not read the same about McCain). I would imagine Obama to be more gay-friendly in general, which is always a good thing.

Abortion
Obama, strongly.
Although I don't necessarily consider Roe v. Wade the best standard for drawing the line on abortion, there at least needs to be room on both sides of that line, and I have a feeling that McCain would be fine with an unconditional ban on abortion.

Gun Control
Obama.
McCain: assault rifles are okay, and you shouldn't have to wait to get one. Can we say "stereotypical gun nut"?

Education
Obama, strongly.
Since this comes down to the question of vouchers, and since the idea of turning schooling into a business is despicable, I'm with Obama on this one.

Patriot Act
Obama.
Fuck the Patriot Act.

here's my opinions on issues

HEALTHCARE
guy named Bill breaks his arm and gets an x-ray, 2nd guy named Bill breaks his arm and gets an x-ray, and the 2 x-rays are indistinguishable
identical injuries get identical medical treatment, period, even if one guy named Bill is Bill Gates and the other guy named Bill is broke
worry about who pays for it on the back end, even if it means Bill Gates goes from being the richest guy in the world to being the 10th richest guy in the world

TAXATION AND BUDGET DEFICIT
get rid of the "budget deficit" by hiking taxes on the richest 1 percent
hike taxes on the richest 10 percent high enough to lower taxes on the lowest 20 percent

ARAB / ISRAELI / IRAQ / IRAN
get all Americans completely totally out of the Middle-East and get to the point where America can just say "The Middle-East is not our problem anymore, we're not involved anymore"

ABORTION
i still believe in Mandatory Abortion

GUN CONTROL
make all school teachers required to be armed, so that the teachers could just shoot the mass-shooter so that the mass-school-shootings become impossible

EDUCATION
nationally standardize education so that every kindergarten class in the entire country has the exact same same curriculum, every 1st grade class every 2nd grade class, every 3rd grade class, has the exact same curriculum for the entire fucking country
the curriculum differences between one state and another are weirdly vast, the different states learning completely totally different things and its weird and stupid and detrimental to the students
 
Coming from someone who's staunchly pro-2nd amendment, arming teachers probably wouldn't do what you think it'd do. Considering how many underpaid, stressed and overworked teachers there are in America, it would only be a matter of time before one of them IS the mass shooter.

You laugh, but weirder shit has happened here in the US of A
 
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Ahhhhh, thanks to blurry for this nostalgic glimpse into the past, a mildly embarrassing window of time when, in my political adolescence, I thought libertarianism was the pinnacle of intellectualism. Oh young Ein, there's so much I wish I could tell you.
 
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Ahhhhh, thanks to blurry for this nostalgic glimpse into the past, a mildly embarrassing window of time when, in my political adolescence, I thought libertarianism was the pinnacle of intellectualism. Oh young Ein, there's so much I wish I could tell you.
Personally, I'm a huge proponent of Cheeseburgerism, but that's just me. I cannot speak for anyone else
 
Coming from someone who's staunchly pro-2nd amendment, arming teachers probably wouldn't do what you think it'd do. Considering how many underpaid, stressed and overworked teachers there are in America, it would only be a matter of time before one of them IS the mass shooter.
Exactly. Maybe such an environment would encourage more kids to bring weapons to school themselves. Plus, half the time surely the mass shooter would happen to be more coordinated than the teacher and thus win the gun battle. Always enjoy another cooked take from our resident meth addict though.
 
Coming from someone who's staunchly pro-2nd amendment, arming teachers probably wouldn't do what you think it'd do. Considering how many underpaid, stressed and overworked teachers there are in America, it would only be a matter of time before one of them IS the mass shooter.

You laugh, but weirder shit has happened here in the US of A
now that i'm actually thinking about it
even without implementing my idea of arming the teachers
it's really is just a matter of time before a teacher becomes the school shooter
just to be completely clear, i'm specifically referring to fucked up country that has these crazy things
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=fried+beer
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=deep+fried+jello
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=fried+ice+cream