The Atheist Bus

I know what you're saying about infinity, and there are lots of great ways to explain it in simple terms. I think we understand infinity as a mathematical concept, but the actual reality of it is far harder to fully realise - especially when physicists believe that the universe may in fact have a finite mass.
 
abyssofdreams said:
It is people like you who motivate me and make me go out and a least try to show them a perspective that is much more uplifting and logical.

If you want to be ignorant, fine. I do not see why I should respect the view of people who do not seem to care for a better world. I feel offended by them. They're unnecessarily limiting themselves and don't want to use their brains, why would that be good? Certainly, it doesn't have to be bad in all cases but it is irrational and completely superfluous. Just like homeopathy and believing in supernatural powers. Agnostic atheism is the next logical step to raise our consciousness. Those who believe atheists are just trying to get their point across have no idea what they're talking about. Atheism is not a religion! So is evolution not a theory but a theory of the most accurate facts we have nowadays and it is refined on a daily basis.

Anybody who ignores that and disagrees with that I cannot respect intellectually. If you want to believe what you want believe, that's fine. But keep your mental disorder to yourself, atheists need to come forward and defend the sanity of the human mind.
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:lol: Sure dude. I never said atheism was a religion. And a better world is not structured on fighting and shitting on people's beliefs. Everyone on the internet is a god damn genius and if you disagree your ignorant. :Smug: You don't know me the least so please don't insult me because after all that's ignorant. All I'm saying is that a lot of people who are religious/not religious feel the need to make everyone conform to their belief. I don't have a problem with atheist. Just the ones who can't shut up about it (As with any religion/belief). It just shows your lack of inner peace and understanding/respect for others beliefs.
 
RockGuitarX said:
:lol: Sure dude. I never said atheism was a religion. And a better world is not structured on fighting and shitting on people's beliefs. Everyone on the internet is a god damn genius and if you disagree your ignorant. :Smug: You don't know me the least so please don't insult me because after all that's ignorant. All I'm saying is that a lot of people who are religious/not religious feel the need to make everyone conform to their belief. I don't have a problem with atheist. Just the ones who can't shut up about it (As with any religion/belief). It just shows your lack of inner peace and understanding/respect for others beliefs.
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hehe, fair enough dude, I see where I got personal and I'm sorry for that. However I will never shut up nor do I lack inner peace :) And I do not see where atheists are like theists, not at all. And since most people who defend their beliefs are simply arrogant (because they claim to know better) I'm not going to stand there and watch them do so.

I'm not judging about you as a person also. So I apologize if you took it that way. But you claimed something and I jumped at it, you have to expect that ;)

I do not respect stupidity, again, that doesn't mean I that I don't respect you as a person. I do not accept irrational viewpoints, that is all.
 
should we stop looking for answers?
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No, never! That´s mankin´s duty. And for me it does not exists something more interesting. And I´m glad, I live NOW and not 1936 or some shitty time..haha. I consider mankind´s progress and science with great interest. I hope we all live well in the next 100 years ;)
 
dan weapon said:
Dude... there is loads we don't know and can't explain. Take possibly the most obvious candidate: the universe. It either; a) existed for infinity and will likely continue to do so, or b) became physical matter at a given point in "time", which means that before that event it was "nothing".
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Wrong-o. Excluded middle (and sides, and top) fallacy, since you need to keep in mind that time acts as a spatial dimension and then 'before time'/'before space'/whatever is an inherently inconsistent concept.

Jeff
 
abyssofdreams said:
That's part of the dilemma. And I'd say it is the limited thinking we are forced to be slaves of. The brain is still evolving. What you describe is linear thinking. There must be a start, there must be an end...that's the limit of the comprehension, however I can give you an example of infinity.

Take mathematics. You draw a line and make a point on that line, you define it by giving it a number. You can divide that number further down, take this number and divide it further down... you get the picture. You can keep doing this into infinity. There is no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. So take that analogy and look at the universe. It never started to be, it was always there and it will never end to be.

Yes, that is mind-blowing but it is logical.
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That's not mind-blowing or logical. It's making the same mistake he made. Further, any analogy to the line would probably just be hiding an assumption that the line was infinitely long anyway. Discussion of whether or not the universe had a 'start' makes about as much sense as asking where a four-dimensional hypersphere begins.

Jeff
 
Isn't it fascinating to speculate about what might lie beyond? Maybe spacetime is only limited to this universe, and another universe with different properties and laws exists beyond. Could it be that "before space" and "before time" might be referring to a moment (which contradictorily still relates to time) before this universe came into existence? Could it have been conceived from another universe whilst portals within this universe could lead to another parallel universe where time and space do not exist?

By the way, since we moved on to this sub-topic, I suggest the film 2001: A Space Odyssey by Stanley Kubrick for those who would like a enthralling, mind-boggling experience related to this discussion.
 
abyssofdreams said:
Ok, I'm not sure I can follow you here Jeff.
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In any physics from the 20th century on, time has been regarded as being another 'direction' in space and calculations are done in four dimensions (with time scaled appropriately) because of this. The 'never started, never ended' phrasing relies on the incredibly large and entirely unjustified assumption that treating the 'endpoints' of the universe separately from time is even coherent.

Jeff
 
well uhm...couldn't we also say that time is infinite or I still don't get it :lol:
might be that I only slept for 2 hours and it's kinda late here :rolleyes:

so... I assumed that the universe is infinite and therefor I treat it seperately from time?
I'm sorry Jeff, prolly a stupid question...
 
Picture this... you're on that line, but moving towards what you think is an endpoint makes it appear that you're moving farther than you actually are - and the discrepancy increases significantly with each step. With enough of a 'warp' you'll think that you can go on forever when you're not, in fact, going anywhere at all. If you didn't know about this discrepancy you'd conclude that the line was infinitely long... but knowing that the discrepancy exists makes it hard for us to say anything at all.

The problem is subtle, in all fairness - since we don't easily visualize things in four-dimensional space we tend to think of time as being separate, but this can lead to disaster, so anything done in physics has to be accompanied by a great deal of math.

Jeff
 
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