The Beliefs Of Amon Amarth
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Tyra
Member
Hahahaha! Whuz up yourself.
Yllmar: Done fishing for the time being. Must say, you planted a seed...
As to where Freya got her power, Susan suggest you check the Sigrdrifumal. You should anyway, it's a good read and contains many things that I think are integral parts of undrstanding the faith. Available on line for free. Anyhow: "He (Odin) says she has knowledge of the "nine worlds" and wants to be taught."
I love asking Susan things like this, because I tend to look at things only in regards to the faith, because "I am already Swedish". I forget that the cultural context is given to me "for free", whereas you guys often have to have it explained to you. I don't mean that in a condescending way!!!! It's just like when you speak English as a first language, nobody has to explain to you why you sometimes say "a" and sometimes say "an", you just do it naturally - I do that with the cultural context - whereas those of us that learn English as a second language from scratch need to have it explained. I want to be good at that, but one has to have vast knowledge about the faith and the litterature and society as a whole, beyond what I have. I can pull that off with bronze age faith, but not with Iron age, which may seem weird, since I am asatru myself. Again, I've had to learn bronze age from scratch, with nothing for free, which is why. Sometimes I just can't explain why something is that way, "it just is", but Susan can put it into a context. On the runes, she says "He sacrificed, a near death experience (shaman initiation) and took up something that was already there, and if he's in the world of the dead he is getting it from there. In cultural terms, isn't that the picking up of somehting that's held in memory or that is already in the well? I think it's significant, for personal reasons, that "none gave him water or bread." As part of a shamanic initiation, "they" not giving him bread and water, may have been his *teachers* that were bringing about the initiation. Take a look at any book on the training of shamans and the very severe means involved. I like to suggest that to people who go on about mushrooms on the shaman list. :> (Me too!/T) Try starvation and bleeding...
The connection to shamanism has to do with the singing and the calling of spirits. But one "does seid" along with other things."
Yllmar: Done fishing for the time being. Must say, you planted a seed...
As to where Freya got her power, Susan suggest you check the Sigrdrifumal. You should anyway, it's a good read and contains many things that I think are integral parts of undrstanding the faith. Available on line for free. Anyhow: "He (Odin) says she has knowledge of the "nine worlds" and wants to be taught."
I love asking Susan things like this, because I tend to look at things only in regards to the faith, because "I am already Swedish". I forget that the cultural context is given to me "for free", whereas you guys often have to have it explained to you. I don't mean that in a condescending way!!!! It's just like when you speak English as a first language, nobody has to explain to you why you sometimes say "a" and sometimes say "an", you just do it naturally - I do that with the cultural context - whereas those of us that learn English as a second language from scratch need to have it explained. I want to be good at that, but one has to have vast knowledge about the faith and the litterature and society as a whole, beyond what I have. I can pull that off with bronze age faith, but not with Iron age, which may seem weird, since I am asatru myself. Again, I've had to learn bronze age from scratch, with nothing for free, which is why. Sometimes I just can't explain why something is that way, "it just is", but Susan can put it into a context. On the runes, she says "He sacrificed, a near death experience (shaman initiation) and took up something that was already there, and if he's in the world of the dead he is getting it from there. In cultural terms, isn't that the picking up of somehting that's held in memory or that is already in the well? I think it's significant, for personal reasons, that "none gave him water or bread." As part of a shamanic initiation, "they" not giving him bread and water, may have been his *teachers* that were bringing about the initiation. Take a look at any book on the training of shamans and the very severe means involved. I like to suggest that to people who go on about mushrooms on the shaman list. :> (Me too!/T) Try starvation and bleeding...
The connection to shamanism has to do with the singing and the calling of spirits. But one "does seid" along with other things."
TheLastWithPaganBlood
Nordman
Are you suggesting starvation and bleeding as a form of initiation?
And BTW, we are now Olympic Games champions in hockey!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Didn't you say your brother worked with the team?
And BTW, we are now Olympic Games champions in hockey!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Didn't you say your brother worked with the team?
Stygian Sins
BLUNTED
- Jan 23, 2006
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Tyra
Member
TheLastWithPaganBlood said:
Hell yes! Go Tre Kronor! Sha-na-na- na! Hey hey hey, goodbye.
Yeah, he's the physio guy. Got to see him all sorts of TV for a change...
Well, that was a quote - mot my words - but yeah, that's how shamanic initiation is often done. I think what she's saying there, is that it's common for shamen to induce visions or retain other knowledge by pain and/or suffering of that kind, rather than by what some people (generally ones that have never tried to attain such visions) claim, i.e. that both Norse, native indian and Pacific shamen had/have to ingest magic mushrooms or such things to induce visions or even berserker rage. Obviously there is Peyote and such things involved on some levels, but she's speciffically speaking about induction here.
MegustaMucho
rock n troll
TheLastWithPaganBlood
Nordman
Actually I knew that initiation rituals often involved pain, but more so those which made one a member of a group or man in a society, but I never thought of it as a means of getting visions. Maybe I'll try it one day. But what will my survival instincts say?
DragonKeeper
czarica i pijana
TheLastWithPaganBlood
Nordman
ANd what about mushrooms? heard hat the berserker-drug was the top skin of "flugsvamp" (the venonomous red musrooms with white dots on them) mixed with sour milk (yoghurt). anyone tried it?
Tyra
Member
Yeah, well, haven't tried Flyagaric (sp?), but know some who have. You start puking as soon as you get any sort of mental reaction. Not good in battle to be vomiting continuously, I don't think. Pretty much been disproven. Change your breathing pattern for a bit, call on Odin and have someone get right in your face (like many do before playing a team sport), bang on your shield and see what happens. ThatI have tried, and it works well to accomplish fury like none you've ever seen. You litterally see red, and you become acutely aware of all sounds and smells and how things feel on your skin, too. Berserker rage is a different entity from shaman initiation, though.
The archaeologist in me would like to tell you this:
There have been finds made at iron age grave sites that have written evidence that those Norsemen who fought there had gone berserk during the battle. These human remains show a genetic disease of the bones, that in current medicine is associated with people being "overly tall" and the bones getting overly thinck. The bones just don't grow like they are supposed to, but rather rapidly. The skullbone typically gets so thick that it eventually squeezes the brain. This causes continuous pain, and the afflicted tend to get extremely angry in .5 seconds. If you look at old accounts of those who were berserkers, like Egil Skallgrimson, the berserkers are often described as having overly large heads, and as having ugly faces, to the point of deformity (which could be a result of said disease, too), and of course, the famous tall Norseman still lives in stories. The disease is speciffically common in people of Nordic descent. Unfortynately, I can't remember the name of it, and I also can't remember the names of the sites where this has been shown to correlate right at the moment, but it makes a lot of sense that some may have just plain old been genetically predisposed to a speciffic kind of rage as a disease symptom.
The archaeologist in me would like to tell you this:
There have been finds made at iron age grave sites that have written evidence that those Norsemen who fought there had gone berserk during the battle. These human remains show a genetic disease of the bones, that in current medicine is associated with people being "overly tall" and the bones getting overly thinck. The bones just don't grow like they are supposed to, but rather rapidly. The skullbone typically gets so thick that it eventually squeezes the brain. This causes continuous pain, and the afflicted tend to get extremely angry in .5 seconds. If you look at old accounts of those who were berserkers, like Egil Skallgrimson, the berserkers are often described as having overly large heads, and as having ugly faces, to the point of deformity (which could be a result of said disease, too), and of course, the famous tall Norseman still lives in stories. The disease is speciffically common in people of Nordic descent. Unfortynately, I can't remember the name of it, and I also can't remember the names of the sites where this has been shown to correlate right at the moment, but it makes a lot of sense that some may have just plain old been genetically predisposed to a speciffic kind of rage as a disease symptom.
yllmar
Jökull Strongjaw
TheLastWithPaganBlood
Nordman
That's very interesting, Tyra. Egil Skallgrimson's skull was said to have been immensely thick and hard, and you know the story about how that guy with the thing at the place couldn't crack it no matter what. And yes he was described as very ugly, some think he was black because of that (but his brother was blond, so). I'm not sure about his father, though I think he was, but his grandfather was for sure a berserker, Kvelldulf his name was. Which would be an indicator of this genetic thesis.
And it wasn't in the northman's nature to complain, so therefore we only hear about the anger part, not the pain inside part.
I think scientists are proving more and more of how much of the way we are and behave is dependant on our genetical material, and, in some cases, its deficiencies. For example whether one is more of an athlete, if one has something of a criminal mind, if one is less than sane, ones IQ, and if one is homosexual. Certainly how easily we become angry, be it because we're experiencing pain or just a lack of sugar or whatever other reason, is too.
And it wasn't in the northman's nature to complain, so therefore we only hear about the anger part, not the pain inside part.
I think scientists are proving more and more of how much of the way we are and behave is dependant on our genetical material, and, in some cases, its deficiencies. For example whether one is more of an athlete, if one has something of a criminal mind, if one is less than sane, ones IQ, and if one is homosexual. Certainly how easily we become angry, be it because we're experiencing pain or just a lack of sugar or whatever other reason, is too.
Tyra
Member
TheLastWithPaganBlood said:"And it wasn't in the northman's nature to complain, so therefore we only hear about the anger part, not the pain inside part."
Well, there is some stuff in Egil's own poetry to indicate this pain, but I still don't have the reference...sorry! Been too busy running around with my Swedish flag up and down Mainstreet on account of the hockey game to pull my head out of my ass.
Sleipnir
Thorsmadr
Tyra said:Well, there is some stuff in Egil's own poetry to indicate this pain, but I still don't have the reference...sorry! Been too busy running around with my Swedish flag up and down Mainstreet on account of the hockey game to pull my head out of my ass.
It is Sonatorrek,the 25 stanza poem he composed after Gunnar had died,he was not only pissed at Ran...he drowned...but Aegir also:
7.
The sea goddess has ruffled me,
stripped me bare
of my loved ones:
the ocean severed
my family's bonds,
the tight knot
that ties me down.
8.
If by sword I might
avenge that deed,
the brewer of waves
would meet his end;
smite the wind's brother
that dashes the bay,
do battle against
the sea-god's wife.
Was at a Ran blót this weekend so I had done a little research,lol.
Lisa and I also did a Norse sweat put on for us by some friends in Deleware Tyra, a few from my kindred as well as other friends were present, very moving,very spiritual and very taxing.
During the Ran blót which was held yesterday at the beach, it was not only cold as could be...yet during the sweat it was extremely an mild, beautiful day actually...but 2 of my kinswomen each sang a song they composed about her, it was right at that time that the wind really kicked up,and the waves seemed to break along the shore more forcefully, and all I could think of was the billow maidens......
At the end when we poured our offering into the ocean, right at that precise moment a wave came in fast and hard,almost drenching my kinswoman Jesse who had to do some deft footwork to avoid it, call it the tide coming in or what but I think it was Ran's way of thanking us for honoring her the way we did and letting us know she heard us.
TheLastWithPaganBlood
Nordman
Yes ok he 'complains' when his son dies but you don't see him running around like some Woody Allen kvetching about this or that: "You know, I'm feeling anxious, and I have this horrible pain inside my head it's worse than migraine and the Blotgot doesn't know what it is and I told him please will you give me something? Mushrooms or anything? And I'm worried about my son playing by the ocean all the time - he shouldn't go so close to the sea......."
Dude...I dont give a fuck about religion, plainly speaking all religion is bullshit, if i like their music, thats fucking good enough
Sleipnir
Thorsmadr
HateCrew666 said:
You took the time to post here , yet strangely enough did not appear to read through the entire thread.............interesting.
TheLastWithPaganBlood
Nordman
Celtik Militia
Dumb French Bastard
i'd like to have a translation of runic inscriptions please
i have this Falkenbach sweater with runic inscriptions on the back..
here it is :
in latin letters if i'm not mistaking i think the runes read:
SIGRUNAR SKALTU KUNNA
EF THU WILT SIGR HAFA
OK RISTA A HJALTI HJORS
SUMAR A WETTRINUE
SUMAR A WALBOSTUE
OK NEFNA TeiSWAR Tei
i dont really know but this might be old islandic.. anyway if anyone knows what language it is please tell me and if someone can actually translate it more or less it would be great. thanks.
i have this Falkenbach sweater with runic inscriptions on the back..
here it is :
in latin letters if i'm not mistaking i think the runes read:
SIGRUNAR SKALTU KUNNA
EF THU WILT SIGR HAFA
OK RISTA A HJALTI HJORS
SUMAR A WETTRINUE
SUMAR A WALBOSTUE
OK NEFNA TeiSWAR Tei
i dont really know but this might be old islandic.. anyway if anyone knows what language it is please tell me and if someone can actually translate it more or less it would be great.
thanks.
TheLastWithPaganBlood
Nordman
It would be one of those older nordic languages, like Icelandic or Faroeic or "Old Norse". And I would guess that it means something like:
Victory Runes shall you know
If you want victory have
And carve (something) Hero's (something)
That's all I could guess.
Victory Runes shall you know
If you want victory have
And carve (something) Hero's (something)
That's all I could guess.
