the dynamite politics thread

[hyena]

That wasn't a threat, but if I was as blind as you,
I would put a bullet in my head.

no, of course you wouldn't be aware of the need to. :Spin:

 

[Lost To Apathy]

 

[rahvin]

i'm often inclined to vote left-wing parties, but that's just in the hope their supporters, unlike salmy and villain, are not inclined to decide that some people don't deserve to live because of their political ideas or the fact that they belong to a certain (or any) religious group. the above, aside from being ridiculous and showing what a feeble grasp you actually have of the ideas you presume to support, is the very same mindframe you accuse imperialism to export. you all have to learn from hyena's balanced, mature, and most of all educated point of view, especially if you don't share the same core values.

i happen to disagree with part of her opinions concerning the morals to defend, or how to defend them, but i'd rather be the cruellest hawk in the bush administration than spending one single minute in the (political, at least: when it comes to daily activities you're both quite meek and soft) company of the likes of salmy and villain, and what magsec aptly called their hot-headed arrogance.
in fact, every time i read opinions burdened with such zealotry and stupidity (one that is a couple of levels below what the most retarded cults or the most backwards conservative famers tend to spew), i feel inclined to desert the cause of level-headed moderate democrats and join that of those who would like to see you put in a condition where you can do no harm. not dead, as you would wish for the opposite side, and certainly not annihilated. but not inciting fanatic conflicts against those who don't think like you either.

 

[rahvin]

when the other debaters simply refuse to think about the world in a bit more complex terms.

sorry, but that's hilarious. are those more complex terms defined as "let's kill every religious person in the world"? wow. that's elaborate indeed.

 

[hyena]

..and, by the way, since "the other debaters" has, at least in part, have to be me - i'm not sure that my worldview can be called not complex enough or straight-out simplistic.

 

[Salamurhaaja]

Let's face it, killing every religious person in the world is the only way to safe the world.
I don't care if you can't see it, but they are the reason for ALL the crap in the world.
I'm all for religious freedom, but do it in your home behind closed doors and don't fucking
use it as an excuse/reason for anything else, it is not reasonable thinking, it's going with
feelings on something that has no place for feelings (aka anything in the "outside" world).

And btw, since you seem to for some reason think I'm a leftist or democrat, stop right
now, the only point of view or alliegence I hold is to science, things that can actually
be proven. This is also why all religions should be destroyed, why the fuck should I
trust anyone who keeps refering to some invisible dude in the sky (or wherever), that
only makes me think you are insane.

 

[hyena]

oh, no, no. it came out all wrong.

let me try to rephrase it: assume that one day 1,000 aliens land on the earth. 950 of them are evil, 50 of them are good, and while the former run amok killing and raping earthlings the latter sit in parks and pick flowers. let us also assume that the good aliens don't really hate the evil aliens, even if they disapprove of their actions, because after all they come from the same planet, they share a culture, maybe some basic values or traditions or a history with them.

so we know that if action is taken against the evil aliens, the good ones will side with them instead of with us, most probably. but we still have to stop the evil aliens lest they take over our cities. what's the solution to this conundrum? kill all the aliens, or send them all back on their planet, regardless of good or evil. or maybe, if we want to be lenient, buy one or five of the good ones to our side while killing all the rest, and cross-breed with them so that in a couple of generations their descendents will feel more attached to the earth than to the original planet. but we cannot let the 950 bad aliens destroy everything because there's 50 peaceful ones, especially if we know that the peaceful ones would rather support their violent kin than another species.

this is not "choosing to ignore the complexity", this is just understanding the complexity and knowing that some factors take priority over some others. actually, i think that the complexity is being ignored, for example, by all those who maintain that the moderates in the arab world will oust the terrorists - they won't, and it's not because they're violent or bloody-minded. it's history.

now go ahead and tell me my point is wrong since aliens do not exist.

 

[hyena]

thankies. i'll cut short my part too, since i'm lagging behind on a paper i'm supposed to finish soon.

 

[rahvin]

Let's face it, killing every religious person in the world is the only way to safe the world.
I don't care if you can't see it, but they are the reason for ALL the crap in the world.

this is a religious position itself, so be sure to keep your gun loaded once you're done with the rest of the world.

 

[MagSec4]

Let's face it, killing every religious person in the world is the only way to safe the world.

All those billions of people are not only part of the very world you mean to save, but the vast majority of it. Your whole approach is paradoxically ridiculous, my friend. It turns your view and your interests into something a lot more selfish, if you think about it, and has that not been a lot of what you've violently criticized about the U.S. yourself?

It´s not like Salamurhaaja (and Villain!!) haven´t come up with arguments ever. In the previous discussions on this war, the US, the afghanistan war etc. they provided this thread with endless amounts of theories, web resources and statistics to think about, accompanied by a lot of facts. They debated neverendingly and tried to disarm point for point their oppenents` ideas. It has all been here already. It is a little understandable that at the moment people can be sick and tired to explain it all a third time, and in their despair refrain to call everyone else "dumb" when the other debaters simply refuse to think about the world in a bit more complex terms.

What I said had absolutely nothing to do with whether or not he's made arguments or how much so. It was strictly about the attitude he displayed yesterday. And, with all due respect, I question your objectivity in this case ..you being someone who's been easily offended in the past at rather minor 'attacks' towards certain people. Now we're talking about implying that someone here 'should put a bullet in her head' ..and about simply killing all those people that in fact include all those you've defended and have pleaded for in the 3rd world.

 

[TheFourthHorseman]

All those billions of people are not only part of the very world you mean to save, but the vast majority of it.

People=the world?

 

[MagSec4]

Yeah..
The world is a term that encompasses the planet Earth and all its ecosystems and inhabitants especially the human population.

Nevertheless:

All those billions of people are not only part of the very world you mean to save, but the vast majority of it.

 

[TheFourthHorseman]

All those billions of people are not only part of the very world you mean to save, but the vast majority of it.

Think of materia. The vast majority? Maybe Salmy means that religions should be abolished in order to save the world in that sense. I'm not saying that I support his views (although I agree on some things), but it would make more sense. Anyway, this hasn't got much to do with politics, and not much with what was being discussed either.

 

[rahvin]

it's certainly an option, 4thhorseman, but i don't see religion posing a threat to the oceans or the mountains, so i wouldn't know what is there to save from it. well, i don't see it posing a threat to the people either, but the metaphisics of science imply it does, so i can understand that point a little better.

 

[TheFourthHorseman]

Yes indeed, I would rather see it so that humans in general are a threat to the oceans and mountains. Religion isn't a threat...religious people can be, but I don't think religion itself is. Humans are evil, not religion. Religion just sucks.
Argh, I should shut up. So off-topic.

 

[rahvin]

Besides, I remember to have read intense heated debates amongst Villain, Salamurhaaja and rahvin in last year, not the nicest debates, and still they sat together to talk and have fun in real life.

i hope this will be possible even after i've become a citizen of the united states. i'm not in danger of becoming a religious person though, so at least i won't have to fear for my life as a consequence of that.

 

[hyena]

You maybe also noticed that I take my debate with hyena as a kind of sports; maybe we meet in 15 years at the UN

ditto for the sporting attitude, not really sure about the UN - i don't see that happening. maybe much, much later. i don't really feel like i'm going places in the institutional sense at the moment, for several reasons including the very weird fact that i might not want to, after all. there's something bittersweet in being too young for one's station, and the bitter part tends to come out on top these days. not to mention the profound inanity of any station, but that's not mine to change.

 

[wildfyr]

*money that sits still for the purpose of creating more money ..money that not even the persons who own it will ever use.

Puh, this guy found a good use for his money.

Just in time for Christmas.

Money Origami

 

[Salamurhaaja]

Hahah, I guess the people here aren't the only ones thinking of
moving to Canada: http://www.canada.com/news/national/story.html?id=1b022644-e8f8-44c9-8cae-c90678858708

Oh and if there was someone who was thinking that "Mirror" cover, I
posted, was a fake, check this: http://www.mirror.co.uk/frontpages/

 

[Qsilver]

but i don't see religion posing a threat to the oceans

Water ---> wine. They claim it's been done before and therefore could possibly happen again. Imagine the consequences. The jews didn't kill jesus, the crucifixion was a masterplan plotted and carried out by the anonymous alcoholics.