the dynamite politics thread

an example of stealing:
There are been numerous copies of fake "made in China" Gibson Guitars sold on ebay. They would fool someone who is not a Gibson connoisseur. They even have "made in USA" and the name Gibson printed on them, and serial numbers that imitate real ones.
They were probabily made by people who work for Epiphone(a brand owned by Gibson, used for cheap versions of their own product) in China (they have a fabric in Quingdao).

In this case, you have to admit it is stealing, dont you?

Yes,I have to confess.And there are much more stealing things which could beyond your imagination.But I don't think this case is as same as car or airplane stealing.

Do you mean chinese could steal(copy) everything,the car and airplane are just a little part of it???
 
But you shouldn't. I'm sure that even if people criticize or doubt your country's economy and politics, they're well aware you're not head of state or directly responsible. They don't mean to offend.

Thank you,I Know that,maybe I'm a little overrectted.Sorry guys for that.we just dark tranquillity fans anyway.fine.
 
@lovemikael: i second rahvin's opinion, you shouldn't be upset.

personally, i am thrilled to have someone from china on the board. it's very interesting, and doubly so because it is quite rare, to hear a voice from your country. over here, we don't always have a precise idea of how things work over there, and getting exposed to a local perspective is good. we are a bunch of rabid debaters at times, especially on this thread, but i invite to take everything in good spirit, just as an exchange of ideas. there's nothing personal against either you or china: granted, something venomous might pop up from time to time, but you should just take it in stride and respond in kind. ;)
 
yes.thank you.Hyena,you are right.thanks mate!!!
I apologize to Taliesin(I shouldn't say play dumb.) and dark silence and marduk.I'm sorry.I am overreactted.
 
yes.thank you.Hyena,you are right.thanks mate!!!
I apologize to Taliesin(I shouldn't say play dumb.) and dark silence and marduk.I'm sorry.I am overreactted.

I think you should only apologise to Taliesin, your reaction to him was inappropriate. However, no need to apologise to me. Look, from 1948 to 1989 my country, former Czechoslovakia, was a communist country, so I know what its like (although I wasnt quite aware of it as a kid). I know you are defending your country, the people, but you should also be aware of the political situation in your country. If anyone criticised my countrys regime before 1989, I would only agree, because it was no good for anyone but the people in the Party and their families and friends. Now, the economical situation in China is changing, but the politics is pretty much the same as it was in my country before 1989. I am also thrilled as hyena to have you here, because we can learn your view of things. Maybe you could tell us how you see the situation in China yourself.
 
I apologize to Taliesin(I shouldn't say play dumb.) and dark silence and marduk.I'm sorry.I am overreactted.
Heh, apology accepted, though I assure you, Ive had worse :p
Im glad to see you admit to the problems of your country, and really, we arent here to make you feel bad about yourself or your country
 
Being voted for by the Jewish in the US. There are a lot of them.
I don't know if the reason to "defend the holy land from the muslims" applies to some American presidents.
I am sure there are some more reasons. Maybe having a military base right next to the "axis of evil".
 
The "holy land" isn't just for the Jews, but also for Christians and Muslims. I mean, Jews left Palestine a long long time ago, and now they suddenly want it back after they realized that no one is accepting them anywhere in the world?
 
Some useful historical references:

the concept of the alyiah, i.e. return of the Jews to the land they originally came from, was already popular at the end of the 19th century, and especially at the onset of the 20th. it was popular because at the time the Zionist intellectual movement, originally born in Austria, had revitalized a certain interpretation of the concept of promised land (eretz israel in hebrew), physical rather than merely spiritual as it had been assumed to be for many years before.

this change of interpretation is, really, something quite cyclical in Jewish culture; but at the time, it was also partially helped along by the fact that waves of antisemitism in Europe were becoming bigger and bigger, first in the East then moving West.

Jews were, therefore, clamoring for their own country. talks were initiated at the Society of Nations, the progenitor of the UN, to see whether it was possible to give them a small piece of land belonging to one of the colonial powers. and at some point the British studied the possibility of making the earthly israel... in Uganda. nothing came of the Ugandan project, but several Jewish settlers started leaving Europe, these settlers went to Palestine, which at the time was a British protectorate. the Brits were alright with a certain number of settlements, didn't really like it when they started growing in numbers, but took no action.

however, then about six million Jews were exterminated by the Germans alone, which comprehensibly brought the question of a Jewish state front and center of the UN mandate from 1946 on. at the time, everyone was pro-Jewish, and everyone was pro-Israel. some of the local Arab princes were ok with the division of land, especially those of Jordan. some others weren't. they tried to get rid of the Jews with 3 wars in 10-odd years and lost. American weaponry was certainly useful, but people in Israel have to spend 3 years in the army (both men and women), which also helps.

the fact that only 2 out of the WW2 winners remained pro-Israel is just a testament to the fact that antisemitism is never quite dead in continental Europe. there would be more to say but i am in a hurry, so i'll elaborate in the future.
 
the fact that only 2 out of the WW2 winners remained pro-Israel is just a testament to the fact that antisemitism is never quite dead in continental Europe. there would be more to say but i am in a hurry, so i'll elaborate in the future.

Thank you very much for your information but I think your last statement is a little bit weird. Not being pro-Israel does not mean that the European countries are antisemitic. They are not anti-Israel either. As far as I know about all the European countries (at least the western ones, I don't know too much about the politics of the eastern countries regarding this conflict) agree that both peoples (Israel and Palestine) deserve their own country and that a peaceful agreement should be made by dividing the country depending on which people has a majority in a certain area which seems like a fair solution to me but it will be hard to get Israel or Palestine to accept that.
 
As far as I know about all the European countries (at least the western ones, I don't know too much about the politics of the eastern countries regarding this conflict) agree that both peoples (Israel and Palestine) deserve their own country and that a peaceful agreement should be made by dividing the country depending on which people has a majority in a certain area which seems like a fair solution to me but it will be hard to get Israel or Palestine to accept that.
Each side wants the whole land, and not part of it - but of course, Israel controls everything as it is obviously the one with power. And if Israel considers the Ghaza strip as a piece of land, then they're completely wrong. Ghaza has the most population density worldwide, it's insane. It's obvious that no one wants Jews in their land (at least Germany), but why should Palestine be the "dumpster"?

hyena: Argentina was one of the countries that England was thinking of as well, and not just Uganda.
 
About China: I find it quite strange that both the Chinese government and everyone outside of the country insists to call the country communist, what does the party actually gain from it?

Plans were actually made for Madagascar too! Originally a French idea (who owned the island) it was actually thought of by the axis powers before they come up with the concept of wiping the jews off the earth. It was quite quickly realized that they would never be able to gather the resources let alone conduct the transportations.

@Hyena: Dosen´t "eretz Israel" directly translate to "greater Israel", the idea of a large Israeli state, stretching from the Sinai into modern day Iraq that a lot of ultra nationalists were voicing?

@Matse: I completely agree with you, anti-semitism and anti-Zionism is definitely two different things.

I find the ideas behind the creation of Israel quite scary right from the start. Jewish emigration started during the Ottoman reign in the area, pre 1914. The ottomans were quite easy rulers and weren´t into the whole oppression thing right then. The movement for a jewish state were able to raise quite huge sums om money during the early part of the 20th century, and used it as Hyena mentioned to buy up large parts of land in the area. The Arabic leaders were quite happy to sell the land, but noone actually considered what the people living in the thought about their living areas and farmlands. Thus the Zionist movement gained a lot of land in a fair way, although if you consider the unfairness of the land distribution in the area right from the start it´s not so strange that the Palestinians protested.

A lot of the Arab hatred comes from the British betrayal after the 1st world war. To help the triple alliances chances of winning the war the British supported an Arab revolt against the Ottoman rulers, with promises of a free unified Arab nation after the war. The Arabs successfully drove the Turks away from Arabia and the middle east, but when it came to splitting the cake France and Great Britain moved in and occupied the area establishing a puppet in Iraq (Sykes-Picot agreement), declaring they were holding "League of Nations mandates" and not actually annexing the Arab lands. :rolleyes:

Promises of a Jewish state was made during this time to. Disregarding the fact that during this time the Palestinians outnumbered the Jews 10 to 1, it was to be a Jewish state, and therefore not probably not a democratic one. The problem with the large amounts of Arabs was dealt with when the state of Israel was declared and during the war that followed, when a large number om Palestinians fled or were driven out of the country. I think estimations say that up to 1 million Palestinians fled during this time, securing a more homogeneous Israel and eventually creating large problems in the enormous refugee camps.

Finally, one thing to remember when talking about the Palestinian terrorists and Arabic fundamentalists is that Israelis also resorted to terror during the decades before the creation of Isreal. Among others were the Swedish UN representative Folke Bernadotte gunned down because of the UN:s proposal concerning what territory should belong to Israel and what should make up Palestine. One of the men responsible for the murder eventually made it to foreign affairs minister and later on Prime minister (I´ll get you his name).
 
It's obvious that no one wants Jews in their land (at least Germany), but why should Palestine be the "dumpster"?

Guys, I have a big surprise for you: Hitler is not reigning Germany anymore. It doesn't matter anymore if you are Jewish or not, they are treated just like everyone else. :hooray:
 
Sorry for the misunderstanding, you just should write in past tense the next time so it is clear for others.
 
This is mainly for Hiljainen. I just found this soundbite, dating back to the eighties, attributed to a journalist on the subject of our beloved Craxxy:

Brandiva il microfono come un mazzo di broccoli.

(for the foreigners: this sounds like "he brandished the microphone like a bunch of broccoli". and Bettino Craxi seriously was one of the most influential Italian politicians of the 80s.)

I so want to go down in history like that.

damn, i missed this post :D
*is now lost in thoughts about how could that pop up into someone's mind*