The "Education" Thread

[Dak]

This semester has been weird so far. I was way out in front on my thesis which has reduced my workload, and the semester classwork load was all clearly outlined in advance on the syllabi so I can kind of work on it when I want/is convenient for me rather than having it unfold on the timeframes of the professors. Additionally, a lot of the work is brief sourced presentations or unsourced opinion papers rather than lengthy pieces or exams. It makes things easier on the one hand but more difficult in other ways. My clinical load is up and is way more interesting/rewarding than my classes. My scholarship starting in the fall should help keep my research load low so I can focus more on clinical hours as I hit the downhill in my program.

 

[PrincessHades]

I'm almost done with the second trimester and I'm failing at least two classes. Fuck me.

Geometry because I'm just bad at it. The teacher is decent and made an effort to help me, so I'm doing a bit better in that now.

History because the teacher is a fucking bitch. She won't shut the fuck up for long enough for me to hand in my missed assignments. I'm actually good at history but this teacher doesn't actually teach.

 

[Einherjar86]

History because the teacher is a fucking bitch. She won't shut the fuck up for long enough for me to hand in my missed assignments. I'm actually good at history but this teacher doesn't actually teach.

I may be misunderstanding, but are you suggesting that she should delay the schedule of the entire course because you didn't turn an assignment in on time?

 

[crimsonfloyd]

Good piece on Aeon: https://aeon.co/essays/writing-essays-by-formula-teaches-students-how-to-not-think

My philosophy is you need to know the structure to be able to break the structure. Once students demonstrate the ability to properly structure a conventional essay, I give them more freedom with regards to structure and organization. So, by this point in the year, my A students are getting a lot of freedom. However, if you try and start with that level of freedom with student who is struggling with organizing their ideas, using evidence, developing focus, etc. you are just setting them up for failure.

 

[PrincessHades]

I may be misunderstanding, but are you suggesting that she should delay the schedule of the entire course because you didn't turn an assignment in on time?

I'm just suggesting that she should make herself available for students to speak to her at convenient times.

 

[Einherjar86]

I'm just suggesting that she should make herself available for students to speak to her at convenient times.

That is entirely legit. From your previous post I thought you were simply frustrated at the course schedule. Teachers need to make themselves available, and work with students to meet one on one.

My philosophy is you need to know the structure to be able to break the structure. Once students demonstrate the ability to properly structure a conventional essay, I give them more freedom with regards to structure and organization. So, by this point in the year, my A students are getting a lot of freedom. However, if you try and start with that level of freedom with student who is struggling with organizing their ideas, using evidence, developing focus, etc. you are just setting them up for failure.

I completely agree, but I don't think the five-paragraph format is ever conventional. Structure is organic, not static. A good short essay might end up being five paragraphs, but there's no reason why an essay of comparable length on a different topic should also be five paragraphs. I don't think it ever benefits students to demand that an essay be five paragraphs. The number of paragraphs depends entirely on topic and argument.

I find it very counter-productive to tell students they can only derive a certain number of sub-claims from a particular thesis, and must articulate each point in a certain number of paragraphs.

 

[unknown]

Not to mention that if it's the only way you're taught how to write an essay, and you don't like it, then chances are likely you won't enjoy writing any essays. I pretty much spend the first week trying to undo many of those bad writing habits ("Put a comma where you pause") and trying to get them to expand their writing repertoire.

Jane Schaeffer and the whole five paragraph essay curriculum model had good ideas. Students should learn about claims, supporting details, and things like that. The format is also good for beginners who have never written an essay before. However, so many students in my classes bemoan the five paragraph essay. I've also met several high school teachers who assign it because it's easy to grade

 

[PrincessHades]

That is entirely legit. From your previous post I thought you were simply frustrated at the course schedule. Teachers need to make themselves available, and work with students to meet one on one.



I completely agree, but I don't think the five-paragraph format is ever conventional. Structure is organic, not static. A good short essay might end up being five paragraphs, but there's no reason why an essay of comparable length on a different topic should also be five paragraphs. I don't think it ever benefits students to demand that an essay be five paragraphs. The number of paragraphs depends entirely on topic and argument.

I find it very counter-productive to tell students they can only derive a certain number of sub-claims from a particular thesis, and must articulate each point in a certain number of paragraphs.

I'm not going to lie, I'm a shitty student. I'm failing two classes and cutting it dangerously close in the rest. But, she and my English teacher are the only two that don't give a fuck. My history teacher doesn't have a problem with me, but she really doesn't want to help. The second trimester is always really hard for me. The first and third are kind of laid back, but the second is where shit goes down.

My English class is fucking hilarious. The teacher is really bad. She is a theater teacher and teaches English on the side because it is part of her contract. She told us that she couldn't focus on teaching the class because "it's theater season".

Sorry for my rant but I asked to go to the fucking library. She then acused me of skipping class and sent three kids to go look for me. It's my fault that she is so cynical of me because of something I put on a test, but she needs to let it go.

 

[crimsonfloyd]

That is entirely legit. From your previous post I thought you were simply frustrated at the course schedule. Teachers need to make themselves available, and work with students to meet one on one.



I completely agree, but I don't think the five-paragraph format is ever conventional. Structure is organic, not static. A good short essay might end up being five paragraphs, but there's no reason why an essay of comparable length on a different topic should also be five paragraphs. I don't think it ever benefits students to demand that an essay be five paragraphs. The number of paragraphs depends entirely on topic and argument.

I find it very counter-productive to tell students they can only derive a certain number of sub-claims from a particular thesis, and must articulate each point in a certain number of paragraphs.

Yeah, I'm not puritanical about 5 paragraphs. Some are 4, some are 5, some are 6. Usually I give them a range and tell them to choose what is most appropriate for them. For the kids that still need graphic organizers, it's far more restricted, but that's an example of learn the structure before breaking the structure.

With my philosophy students (juniors and seniors) I've stopped giving page lengths or a minimum number of citations. It's basically "how long does it need to be to prove your point?" (Turns out really long...)

I think what I feel more strongly about is the general structure of the paragraph itself.

1. Topic sentence
2. Background/context (if necessary)
3. evidence
4. elaboration
*repeat 2-4 as necessary to demonstrate 1.

I

 

[unknown]

Yeah. I tell my students something similar when we discuss paragraphing. I tell them it focuses on one main idea, and it's however long it needs to be to support and explore that idea. Sometimes it's 5-7 sentences. Sometimes more...

 

[PrincessHades]

I can't stand writing in proper format. I like writing essays and expressing my opinions but I don't feel like trying to write a "catchy topic scentence" to to get the reader interested in whatever insipid shit I am supposed to write about. I don't even understand the thesis.

I get that a proper essay has a structure, and it is neccesary to give the reader a sense of start and finish, but grammarians are making up stupid shit like hooks and theses.

 

[Einherjar86]

Yeah, I'm not puritanical about 5 paragraphs. Some are 4, some are 5, some are 6. Usually I give them a range and tell them to choose what is most appropriate for them. For the kids that still need graphic organizers, it's far more restricted, but that's an example of learn the structure before breaking the structure.

With my philosophy students (juniors and seniors) I've stopped giving page lengths or a minimum number of citations. It's basically "how long does it need to be to prove your point?" (Turns out really long...)

I think what I feel more strongly about is the general structure of the paragraph itself.

1. Topic sentence
2. Background/context (if necessary)
3. evidence
4. elaboration
*repeat 2-4 as necessary to demonstrate 1.

I

I find that my students are usually good at topic sentences, but not at transitions. So many students think it suffices to write "Another point is..." It gets rather infuriating.

And passive voice--they love the passive voice.

 

[Dak]

And passive voice--they love the passive voice.

At least it's harder to write a polemic in passive.

 

[Einherjar86]

And yet many of them still manage to do both. They're supposed to compose an argument about a story by Pynchon, for example, and somehow this morphs into a personal polemic about how "technology is bad."

But this doesn't stop them from writing things like "This can be seen in" or "This is demonstrated by"--seen by whom? Demonstrated by what? The problem with the passive isn't only that it de-personalizes the prose. One of the things we try to teach in WR 100/150 is how to write critical/analytical prose without sacrificing voice (it's a difficult combo of critical distance and declarative confidence).

While I appreciate the impersonal impetus behind the passive, the main problem I have with it is that it renders action ambiguous. Saying that something "is demonstrated by" something leads a reader to wonder who or what is demonstrating: the text? the character(s)? the event(s)? the writer? the reader? This also connects with the weak construction I often see in student writing, i.e. "it may be suggested that..." So many students use this construction and don't follow it with a rebuttal; that is, they present their claim in the form of a potential suggestion. Not only does this reflect an ambiguous action, it also leaves readers wondering whether the suggestion is actually being made or even should be made.

I end up spending a lot of time on voice when I critique students' work. It's all about clarity and confidence.

 

[unknown]

I think part of it is trying to "sound academic". In one of my literacy classes we read James Paul Gee who referred to this as "mushfaking." They're trying the discourse on for size. They might think their sentences are supposed to sound convoluted and obtuse because that's how they think academics write

 

[Dak]

Well, thesis is going through the signature hurdles (trying to catch professors around). Have a little under 30 days to get signatures and have the graduate school sign off on formatting to officially get my masters at the end of this semester. Also think I cleared my last hurdle for commissioning, gonna mean a lot more money for the rest of school and beyond. Thinks are looking pretty good.

 

[unknown]

Well, thesis is going through the signature hurdles (trying to catch professors around). Have a little under 30 days to get signatures and have the graduate school sign off on formatting to officially get my masters at the end of this semester. Also think I cleared my last hurdle for commissioning, gonna mean a lot more money for the rest of school and beyond. Thinks are looking pretty good.

I remember the Assistant Dean running into me on campus and saying, "No chapter titles? I can't sign off on that!" The look on my face...he immediately replied, "I'm kidding I'm kidding!". Good god. Those signatures

 

[crimsonfloyd]

College acceptance letters are coming out and its amazing seeing the students I've worked with for years get into universities. Out of a class of about 100 students, six into UCLA, one into Scripps, and one into Stanford. I know at least two kids who got into UC Berkeley, but am just going off word-of-mouth on that one at the moment, so there could be more. It really makes all the tireless days, long nights and work weekends worth it. Moreover, one of my favorite students ever is going to my alma mater, UC Santa Cruz. I've had her for two years now, one for English and one for philosophy. She's one of the most intellectually creative people I've ever met, and honestly, she could cut it at a lot more prestigious schools, but I think UCSC is the right place for her. Two other students that I was also really close with when I had them in 10th grade are also going to UCSC. I had no idea it would affect me so much, but it really makes me feel a part of something bigger to see my students take a path that mirrors the path I took years ago. I imagine it's a feeling parents often feel, but with someone who doesn't have kids, it's a special moment.

 

[Einherjar86]

Stressful month here.

Early February I was notified that I'm a finalist for the Visiting Scholars Program in the American Academy of Arts and Sciences. It's the only positive response I got from any of the jobs/postdocs that I applied for, which was one more than I was expecting. Had to craft a writing sample for them--sixty pages total, featuring an introduction and full biblio from the dissertation, which took up all my time until spring break. Anyway, I was supposed to find out this week if I made the cut, but learned yesterday that they won't make final selections until mid-April. I'm on pins and needles waiting for the news, keeping my fingers crossed. If I get in, I'll have to defend this summer, which will be hell but my committee said we can pull it off. It it falls through, I'll have one more year of teaching at BU. No matter what happens I'm defending in April 2019 at the latest. I'm ready to be done with this.

I remember thinking nothing would be more stressful than my comprehensive exam, but I was wrong. This is more stressful.

Otherwise, I'm waiting to hear if a roundtable I pitched to MLA will be accepted for the 2019 convention, and have two essays out for review--one at the Journal of Modern Lit, and one at Contemporary Lit. So it's a lot of waiting right now. Waiting sucks.

 

[Dak]

learned yesterday that they won't make final selections until mid-April.

That's some BS. I already see this second and third hand far more than I would like. And my professor wonders why I have less than zero interest in academia. Keeping people dangling while other opportunities disappear is a shitty process.

No matter what happens I'm defending in April 2019 at the latest. I'm ready to be done with this.

I remember thinking nothing would be more stressful than my comprehensive exam, but I was wrong. This is more stressful.

Congrats! I'm already ready to be done now that I have a job pretty much on lockdown when I finish. Still have two years to grind out though.

I've got what is kinda sort the equivalent of "comps" to do during the summer/fall, which is far more stressful than the thesis or dissertation. My dept recently rolled out a rubric to try and standardize the process some but it's still quite subjective and you're kind of at the mercy of the luck of the draw of the committee. We have a couple of faculty known for passing people with an asterisk, which basically means "you can start working on your dissertation but also redo this because reasons".