The "Education" Thread

[Blurry_Dreams]

Academics generally can't recoup lost earnings.

if you're referring to student loan debt, then you're right
most Americans aren't able to pay off their student loans, it's a problem

 

[Dak]

Not just debt. Time in school =/= lost earnings because you aren't working at all, or only full time. Add debt maybe/likely. Then academia doesn't pay very well in most cases, particularly not in respect to the time investment.

 

[Blurry_Dreams]

Not just debt. Time in school =/= lost earnings because you aren't working at all, or only full time. Add debt maybe/likely. Then academia doesn't pay very well in most cases, particularly not in respect to the time investment.

especially when you consider that the "average american with a credit card" spends "a dollar and a quarter for every dollar that they make"
Americans with credit cards are usually just swimming in credit card debt, and a lot of american credit card holders are people that don't even think about getting a credit card until after they're already enrolled in college

 

[Dak]

Possibly true, but irrelevant to recouping lost earnings.

 

[Blurry_Dreams]

get employed straight out of high-school

 

[Einherjar86]

Sent off all of my grad apps a few weeks ago. I ended up taking the GRE a second time. I didn't want to because I've already thrown about $500 at ETS over the last few years and I really hate contributing to the racket further. Plus, I figured that perfect grad transcripts and two years of studying in my country of research would place my 158 Verbal in a charitable light. A potential adviser from one of the schools I'm applying to asked me to though because they apparently become valuable bargaining chips in graduate committee discussions. With his asking, it wasn't really possible for me not to do so. It worked out perfectly, as I bumped my score to a 165. So, it makes it all the more likely I'll be able to get into most of the places I've applied. Exciting stuff. My bank account hurts.

Beyond the formalities, I've made contact and had pleasant discussions with all of my potential advisers, one excepted. I still applied to this one because of the name, despite being totally snubbed by the professor (after reaching out to the grad director, this prof replied to me via the grad director, saying I was free to apply if I thought the program was the next logical step in my academic career--I get I'm a nobody, but a little decorum from somebody I'll have to work with for six years would be nice), so I'm hoping I'll make it into the other places so I can turn it down.

Take a breath, relax, sip some whiskey.

 

[Dak]

Sent off all of my grad apps a few weeks ago. I ended up taking the GRE a second time. I didn't want to because I've already thrown about $500 at ETS over the last few years and I really hate contributing to the racket further. Plus, I figured that perfect grad transcripts and two years of studying in my country of research would place my 158 Verbal in a charitable light. A potential adviser from one of the schools I'm applying to asked me to though because they apparently become valuable bargaining chips in graduate committee discussions. With his asking, it wasn't really possible for me not to do so. It worked out perfectly, as I bumped my score to a 165. So, it makes it all the more likely I'll be able to get into most of the places I've applied. Exciting stuff. My bank account hurts.

Beyond the formalities, I've made contact and had pleasant discussions with all of my potential advisers, one excepted. I still applied to this one because of the name, despite being totally snubbed by the professor (after reaching out to the grad director, this prof replied to me via the grad director, saying I was free to apply if I thought the program was the next logical step in my academic career--I get I'm a nobody, but a little decorum from somebody I'll have to work with for six years would be nice), so I'm hoping I'll make it into the other places so I can turn it down.

Missed this thanks to retard fuddying up the thread. Taking the GRE again sucks two ways. That's a lot of money and hassle to gain 7 points on a subscale, but as long as it's worth it in the end that is the most important thing; I hope it pans out for you.

I'm 2.5/4 of the way through in my program and both blessed and irritated in different ways.......it could be worse and could be better. Myself and another person are getting put in a trailblazing position in one aspect because of the young nature of our program and the evolving nature of some aspects of our program and it seems unfair on some levels, and I'm irritated at the systems level incompetency that seems apparent from my level of perspective.....but I'm more of a systems person adrift in a psych world so there's some mismatch there and I'm probably too agreeable and there's also the simple nature of things. On the other hand, I'm blessed to have a mentor who is perfect for me, I think, and unfortunately I can't simply run my entire experience through the mentor. Overall I'm in great shape but I'm always setting the bar high and running on thin margins and it isn't a recipe for constant success so I can't complain unequivocally.

"This too shall pass" is a source of comfort in the short term, but at times I feel excessively old and rapidly aging, and in that it's not a comfort. I'm in mostly superb health, and barring an accident I expect to live to 80 and beyond, and despite this expectation of a long life I regularly feel like my life is mostly past in a relative sense - which is something backed by data (an example of knowledge not necessarily helping). On my FB I have a quote from Nietzsche which is "Is life not a thousand times too short for us to bore ourselves?". I feel it in my bones increasingly every day, and it's often a source of melancholy even in the midst of enjoyment.

 

[Einherjar86]

I'm more of a systems person adrift in a psych world so there's some mismatch there and I'm probably too agreeable and there's also the simple nature of things.

I would have thought you'd describe yourself as a psych person in a systems-focused world.

"This too shall pass" is a source of comfort in the short term, but at times I feel excessively old and rapidly aging, and in that it's not a comfort. I'm in mostly superb health, and barring an accident I expect to live to 80 and beyond, and despite this expectation of a long life I regularly feel like my life is mostly past in a relative sense - which is something backed by data (an example of knowledge not necessarily helping). On my FB I have a quote from Nietzsche which is "Is life not a thousand times too short for us to bore ourselves?". I feel it in my bones increasingly every day, and it's often a source of melancholy even in the midst of enjoyment.

I think academia prematurely ages you, no matter how healthy you are. I find that keeping up with current trends in the discourse, along with trying to remain relevant via presentation and publication, is unendingly stressful. I basically treat exercise as a technique to counter the side effects of anxiety.

But the finish line's in sight for me. I submitted my dissertation to my defense committee before Thanksgiving. Defense will hopefully occur in late January/early February.

 

[Dak]

I would have thought you'd describe yourself as a psych person in a systems-focused world.

I'm not sure the world has any claim to an orientation.

I think academia prematurely ages you, no matter how healthy you are. I find that keeping up with current trends in the discourse, along with trying to remain relevant via presentation and publication, is unendingly stressful. I basically treat exercise as a technique to counter the side effects of anxiety.

Being slightly older than many grad students, it's hard to parse out the environmental effects from normal changes in perception with aging. The constant performance is stressful, but I think that only contributes in the sense that performing takes away time that I can't get back. I find little intrinsic value and less faith in much of the process, so that contributes significantly to the perception of lost time. Watching your own kids grow up also marks the passage of time much more dramatically.

But the finish line's in sight for me. I submitted my dissertation to my defense committee before Thanksgiving. Defense will hopefully occur in late January/early February.

I assume that's final defense and not a proposal defense? Congrats!

 

[Einherjar86]

I'm not sure the world has any claim to an orientation.

Ha, well that's certainly true. I didn't mean world as in the entire world though; I was invoking your phrase "a systems person adrift in a psych world," by which I thought you were referring to your department, generally speaking.

I assume that's final defense and not a proposal defense? Congrats!

Final, yes. Thanks. It feels good to get it off my plate and know the end is near (as ominous as that sounds).

 

[Dak]

Ha, well that's certainly true. I didn't mean world as in the entire world though; I was invoking your phrase "a systems person adrift in a psych world," by which I thought you were referring to your department, generally speaking.

I'll just say that it appears clear to me that a lot of psych professors (not that they are a unique case) would benefit from some philosophy classes. Especially ethics and epistemology; maybe some philosophy of science.

Final, yes. Thanks. It feels good to get it off my plate and know the end is near (as ominous as that sounds).

I'm so ready to be out of this environment; outside of specific people, there's nothing I'm enjoying in graduate school I can't get equally or better in other settings. I imagine there are some non-person related environmental positives you're going to miss.

 

[Einherjar86]

I'll just say that it appears clear to me that a lot of psych professors (not that they are a unique case) would benefit from some philosophy classes. Especially ethics and epistemology; maybe some philosophy of science.

I'd think philosophy is mandatory for psych majors, but obviously I don't know.

My wife occasionally interviews graduating seniors from local business schools when her company is looking for new hires. One question she always asks them is what their least favorite course was, and they almost invariably answer "philosophy." Usually they say they don't see how it applies to them, or why the reading was important, etc. And almost invariably, she crosses those applicants off her list.

I'm so ready to be out of this environment; outside of specific people, there's nothing I'm enjoying in graduate school I can't get equally or better in other settings. I imagine there are some non-person related environmental positives you're going to miss.

Maybe, but not strictly related to grad school. I'm not leaving academia (at least not yet...), and it's the academic environment that I really like (at least so far...). I am quite excited to leave behind the advisory, apprenticeship world of grad school and enter the "professional" realm, although I consider all the work I do now professional. But every year I see a new bunch of grad students come in, and every year I'm reminded how far I've come since I was a first-year. I'm ready for that to mean something.

 

[Dak]

I'd think philosophy is mandatory for psych majors, but obviously I don't know.

My wife occasionally interviews graduating seniors from local business schools when her company is looking for new hires. One question she always asks them is what their least favorite course was, and they almost invariably answer "philosophy." Usually they say they don't see how it applies to them, or why the reading was important, etc. And almost invariably, she crosses those applicants off her list.

I heard similar stuff when tutoring Intro to Ethics, and trying to challenge that mindset was nearly impossible. I'm not sure if it's a defensive response to a sensed lack of capacity, but it's telling that persons like your wife interviewed had the lack of awareness in reporting their ignorance in this area; they literally can't fathom that anyone else who matters thinks philosophy matters. And so they rightly should be crossed off hiring lists for jobs requiring critical thinking.

Unfortunately (and I'm sure there is some variance by school), I don't think psych classes require any more philosophy than most majors, which is to say one (or maybe two) intro level class(es). To keep pass rates up, at least at my school, the intro classes were mostly ridiculously easy. We never had more than ~10 people in my upper level philosophy classes (at a uni with an undergraduate population of ~20-25k), and almost all were double majors w/poli-sci with intent to go to law school, at least if iirc.

 

[viewerfromnihil]

Yeah, upper-level philosophy courses in my undergrad rarely had more than 6 students enrolled, but then upper-level humanities students were pretty rare in general there. Even here in Münster, which has the 6th largest university in Germany, students in upper-level philosophy courses are few and far between, and this is despite the fact that quite a few students major in philosophy (albeit Bachelors auf Lehramt, or students training to become teachers). Last semester, we had only 5 students in a seminar on Kant's anthropology and we've got only about 6 in a history of ideas course on philosophies of the state I'm taking this semester. The DWEM factor of these courses plays into this a bit too, of course.

 

[Dak]

"DWEM"s are a problem for white europeans?

 

[Einherjar86]

Heading to Chicago today, participating in two sessions at the MLA conference, one of which I organized. Excited, but also just want it to be over already.

On the plus side, I have a meeting with an acquisitions editor at Ohio State UP about turning my dissertation into a book (just a preliminary talk). And on top of that, I'm getting $500 from BU for travel expenses. Can't complain.

https://mla19.org/event/member?item_id=9037405

 

[Blurry_Dreams]

"DWEM"s are a problem for white europeans?

 

[Einherjar86]

I defended my dissertation today.

I know words n’ shit.

 

[viewerfromnihil]

Congrats!

I'm impatiently awaiting answers from programs. If reports on schools listed on Gradcafe I applied to hold up, they should start coming in this week.

 

[viewerfromnihil]

First answer was an acceptance offer into one of the elite programs. I'm beyond words at this point. It'll probably take me until tomorrow for this to settle. The main thing I feel now besides excitement is relief that I won't have to worry if it doesn't work out with the other programs.