The great and all powerful religion thread!

[swizzlenuts]

Using personal experiences to prove something like the supernatural is completely useless. It is a cop out because they just decide to stop thinking and don't recognize how easy it is for the brain to become fooled.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

Just concede that a general belief in the supernatural is not insane/idiotic.

Well people can believe whatever they want, but I would predict that religious beliefs will become increasingly perceived as insane and idiotic over time as religion dies out in the world. Eventually I think it will be viewed in roughly the same way as belief in fairy tales, ghosts, UFOs, or any other myths and legends.

I mean, any time someone swears to you that they've seen some invisible creature that no one else can see, it kind of makes you wonder how mentally stable they are. I'm sure you would agree with this in cases other than religious ones. There's really nothing separating religions from other myths in terms of credibility.

 

[Dak]

Well people can believe whatever they want, but I would predict that religious beliefs will become increasingly perceived as insane and idiotic over time as religion dies out in the world. Eventually I think it will be viewed in roughly the same way as belief in fairy tales, ghosts, UFOs, or any other myths and legends.

I mean, any time someone swears to you that they've seen some invisible creature that no one else can see, it kind of makes you wonder how mentally stable they are. I'm sure you would agree with this in cases other than religious ones. There's really nothing separating religions from other myths in terms of credibility.

So what do you do with all the paranormal activities attributed to ghosts? Something is causing them, whether it be the spirits of dead people or something else. This would lend at least a minute amount of evidence to the possibility of the supernatural.

As far as UFOs go, if it is a forgone conclusion that aliens are a myth, why is science still looking for them? That doesn't even go into LOFAR or any other big budget operation that is trying to find/communicate with aliens.

 

[Zephyrus]

So what do you do with all the paranormal activities attributed to ghosts? Something is causing them, whether it be the spirits of dead people or something else. This would lend at least a minute amount of evidence to the possibility of the supernatural.

As far as UFOs go, if it is a forgone conclusion that aliens are a myth, why is science still looking for them? That doesn't even go into LOFAR or any other big budget operation that is trying to find/communicate with aliens.

I can't speak for UFOs, but there is NO credible evidence of ghosts or the paranormal beyond isolated eyewitness accounts.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

So what do you do with all the paranormal activities attributed to ghosts? Something is causing them, whether it be the spirits of dead people or something else. This would lend at least a minute amount of evidence to the possibility of the supernatural.

There's plenty of evidence to support the theory that ghost sightings are caused by abnormal brain activity. We see shit that isn't there when we dream, and if we take hallucinogens. The active chemicals in a number of hallucinogens occur naturally in the brain. Clearly the brain is capable of tricking people into thinking they experienced something that they actually didn't.

As far as evidence for the supernatural explanation, it's exclusively anecdotal.

As far as UFOs go, if it is a forgone conclusion that aliens are a myth, why is science still looking for them? That doesn't even go into LOFAR or any other big budget operation that is trying to find/communicate with aliens.

I didn't say they don't exist. I'm just saying that most of the people who report UFO sightings/abductions seem to be full of shit. Let's just disregard this example of a legend/myth since it isn't necessarily supernatural anyway.

 

[Death Aflame]

Another classic christian fallacy. Because there's no proof or disproof, you claim it's a 50/50 chance. That's not how it works.

Yeah in our human affairs it is on the one advocating for the belief in x to bare the burden of proof.

Edit: to answer Dakryn, this is why it isn't 50/50.

 

[Ender Rises]

Extreme claims require extreme evidence.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

Also, even though I may be contradicting my own atheism here, so be it, for hypothetical sake: even if Pascal's wager is the reason Dakryn believes in God and is Christian, it's not 50/50 that he will get fucked for eternity by demons or he'll be huzzahing in heaven...there are lots of other equal possibilities, like other religions being right, or the Spaghetti Monster tentacle raping him in Chef Boyardee Hell forever or something.

 

[Ender Rises]

Also, even though I may be contradicting my own atheism here, so be it, for hypothetical sake: even if Pascal's wager is the reason Dakryn believes in God and is Christian, it's not 50/50 that he will get fucked for eternity by demons or he'll be huzzahing in heaven...there are lots of other equal possibilities, like other religions being right, or the Spaghetti Monster tentacle raping him in Chef Boyardee Hell forever or something.

.

Pascal's Wager makes no sense in a world with more than one religion. There's nothing to say which religion is right.

 

[Dak]

I was referring to the 50/50 chance of supernatural or no supernatural originally. Sorry, got off base with the other analogy.

 

[Vimana]

As I always thought. There are an infinite number of possibilities for these supernatural forces and an infinite number of ways they could work since we can't prove or disprove them. This God of yours is one in that great number.

 

[Thoth-Amon]

Oh yeah, side note as far as logic goes, this is my [backup] logic for believing in the supernatural.

If I live my entire life believing in God, doing what I believe I am supposed to do etc etc, and then die and it turns out there is no God/afterlife etc, what did I lose? So I missed out on the things my beliefs forbid (extramarital sex,certain foods, etc) but how big of a loss is that? Not a really big one.

On the flip side if I die and my beliefs are right, "epic WIN".

Bottom line, if I hold the athiest belief and I am right, no difference than if I didn't hold that belief. But if it is wrong, epic FAIL.

That would be my logic, personal experiences aside.

this is a lame argument... let's say for example that you live your life believing in X God and obeying X God's rules... well shit it turns out that X God doesn't exist and in fact Y God is the true God and he's pissed you didn't believe in him. You're still fucked.

 

[Thoth-Amon]

I didn't expect my personal claims to be proof for you. They are proof for me .

what if the experiences you had were the products of evil spirits trying to get you to believe in a false god? after all millions of other people from other religions claim to have spiritual experiences which validate their beliefs. this is why a religions claims need to be critically examined in the light of reason and evidence. and frankly christianity doesn't hold up (scientific errors, historical errors, forgeries, advocating attrocious morality, false prophecies, etc.).

 

[False Joe]

Tbh there being no afterlife is basically one of 80 billion suggested ends. By believing in Christianity you're more likely to be buttfucked by one of them, than being lucky there's no afterlife.

 

[Dak]

what if the experiences you had were the products of evil spirits trying to get you to believe in a false god? after all millions of other people from other religions claim to have spiritual experiences which validate their beliefs. this is why a religions claims need to be critically examined in the light of reason and evidence. and frankly christianity doesn't hold up (scientific errors, historical errors, forgeries, advocating attrocious morality, false prophecies, etc.).

Fortunately I am not a Christian. Not by the Catholic/Protestant definition anyway. And to your response to that earlier analogy I had already said it was offbase. I "got the memo".

I've said numerous times I don't follow any religion, I follow the Bible in general nad my relationship with my "invisible friend" as some want to call it. I know there are flaws in the Bible between books that arent inspired/translating errors and I try to extract them and move on.

As far as "false prophecies" and "advocating attrocious morality" go, I would like to know which prophecies or "morality" you are referring to.

@Joe: Sooo, if its a crapshoot, it really doesn't matter which option you pick right? So mine is just as good as yours by that reasoning.

 

[False Joe]

@Joe: Sooo, if its a crapshoot, it really doesn't matter which option you pick right? So mine is just as good as yours by that reasoning.

I'm more pointing out your theory of "There's only two options" is wrong.

I don't wish to get into this too much, because I don't have anywhere near the level of intelligence or philosophy to participate in this skill.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

So, Dakryn, you're just kind of some random vaguely religious person, standing up extremely and staunchly for Christian beliefs all the while eschewing the fact that you're obviously Christian because of your beliefs? You believe in Jesus Christ as savior of humanity right? You're Christian then.

 

[Dak]

So, Dakryn, you're just kind of some random vaguely religious person, standing up extremely and staunchly for Christian beliefs all the while eschewing the fact that you're obviously Christian because of your beliefs? You believe in Jesus Christ as savior of humanity right? You're Christian then.

Thats about all I have in common with "Christianity" when it comes down to the specifics, but if thats all that matters then sure.
I am kind of closer to being a [Jew] than Christian but I don't believe in any of the Talmudic bullshit + believing in [Jesus].

Edit: @Joe, my point was to all those claiming that there is no supernatural period. Which there is a 50/50 option of the existence of the supernatural or not. Now what form it could be in if it exists would technically be a crapshoot.

 

[skeptik]

If you believe in Christ as your savior, you are Christian. You can be non-denominational you know.

Also, no, not believing that there is an afterlife is not on the same ground as believing in one of the hundreds of gods that people have believed in over the years, because it's the most reasonable deduction based on all of the available information we have. We have no reason to believe that there is one, so why should we believe that there is any more than we believe that there's a universe-producing machine created by Da Vinci?

 

[TalesOfTerror]