Zephyrus
Tyrants and Slaves
Sorry if atheist humor is offensive because we lack respect for an imaginary celestial dictator.
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Sorry if atheist humor is offensive because we lack respect for an imaginary celestial dictator.
genocide roach
DOOOOOOOOOOM
- Aug 18, 2002
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on the topic of buddhism, help me think through something...
how can an organization which requires one to believe in a higher power (assumed to mean a god) accept buddhism as a legit religion?
if we accept a higher power to mean something else (perhaps a moral code), couldnt it be argued that perhaps all people are allowed, religious or not?
the 2nd part is what im really trying to think through right now
~gR~
how can an organization which requires one to believe in a higher power (assumed to mean a god) accept buddhism as a legit religion?
if we accept a higher power to mean something else (perhaps a moral code), couldnt it be argued that perhaps all people are allowed, religious or not?
the 2nd part is what im really trying to think through right now
~gR~
divine_torture
leVel
I've been pondering something lately: The negation of gOD altogether.
I came up with this theory largely through Aristophenes' tale in Plato's 'Symposium'. His rationale on love is that we are searching for our other half to complete ourselves. We have been split because the gods punished us for trying to rebel. (BTW: To kill a god, you simply don't believe in him/her.)
I then started pondering why gOD, in the xian sense, created man. He already had angels to worship him. What he wanted was for others to CHOOSE to love him. To go to him of his own free will.
Now, as any xian will tell you, gOD is 'perfect'. If something or someone is perfect, you cannot add or take away it. Otherwise it is no longer perfect. However, if he created us to love him of our own will, then he DESIRES TO BE LOVED. He is a slave to that desire. Without people to love him of their own choice, he is incomplete, meaning quite simply that he is IMPERFECT. Which completely destroys his omnipotent, perfect stature.
Anyway, just some random thoughts of mine.
I came up with this theory largely through Aristophenes' tale in Plato's 'Symposium'. His rationale on love is that we are searching for our other half to complete ourselves. We have been split because the gods punished us for trying to rebel. (BTW: To kill a god, you simply don't believe in him/her.)
I then started pondering why gOD, in the xian sense, created man. He already had angels to worship him. What he wanted was for others to CHOOSE to love him. To go to him of his own free will.
Now, as any xian will tell you, gOD is 'perfect'. If something or someone is perfect, you cannot add or take away it. Otherwise it is no longer perfect. However, if he created us to love him of our own will, then he DESIRES TO BE LOVED. He is a slave to that desire. Without people to love him of their own choice, he is incomplete, meaning quite simply that he is IMPERFECT. Which completely destroys his omnipotent, perfect stature.
Anyway, just some random thoughts of mine.
mutantllama
Active Member
Zephyrus
Tyrants and Slaves
You will see on the continuum of history that our conception of God becomes less and less anthropomorphic. The Greeks thought all their gods were human and possessed human virtues and vices. Thus, these gods were not moral standards, rather just very powerful forces that could portend fate and be appeased by sacrifice.
What philosophy did, which was adopted later on by Christianity, was argue that the cosmic divinity could not possess human traits in order to rationally function in the scheme of things. The Epicureans used this argument to disprove the relevance of God, while the Stoics and Platonists used it to place their God well above earthly characteristics, thus creating an ideal to compare the real world to. Thus we start hating the world, convinced there is something that exists much better than it.
Dak
mentat
Well considering that half of the stuff didn't make sense even spun, it was a poor joke. The only thing that gave it away was the tree and the mill workers/ blast furnace.
zabu of nΩd
Free Insultation
- Feb 9, 2007
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I don't think you're giving any really solid argument here, just a possible explanation of what the writers of the Bible wanted God to be like (i.e. in that God reflected a common human trait). If we're discussing this in terms of proving or disproving God's existence, you really have no basis to claim that God created man just because he "desires to be loved".
Dak
mentat
So you are imperfect because you want something? Are you more perfect after you get it? Only in a purely materialistic mindset.
Sounds pretty flawed to me.
Sounds pretty flawed to me.
Zephyrus
Tyrants and Slaves
If God were self-sufficient he need not create a race of diseased vertebrates that need to suffer even more in order to become one with Him. If he doesn't desire to be loved, then he is a sadist for creating us in such a state as we are, regardless of whether he cares. If he were already perfect and free of human desires, he need not create anything at all. He might as well not exist himself. Oh wait.
AchrisK
Weakling
Interesting thoughts, though they are based on an assumption that you know why God created man. I do believe that the intention of God is to know those who, of their own free will, want to know him. But as to why he started the whole thing, I think we can only speculate, and thus can only speculate on what those speculations mean. As a believer in God, this is something I ponder from time to time.
Zephyrus
Tyrants and Slaves
If He wants us to know him, he hasn't done a good job. And if he's using faith based on ancient revelations to determine who's worthy, then he is incapable of absolute love, which contradicts His very nature according to your theology.
If he wanted people to know him, he would have had a bunch of other gods with him to keep him company, themselves just as perfect as He. OH SHIT I JUST PROVED GREEK MYTHOLOGY.
AchrisK
Weakling
Forgive me for being so blunt, but every time I read you identifying yourself with atheism so proudly it generates in me an unexplained level of anger and disgust. It's not the same when other Atheists make statements. It must just be something about the way you say things, or maybe it's a spiritual reaction. I don't even know why I am compelled to say anything.
Zephyrus
Tyrants and Slaves
The truth is that I'm a zealous convert. I was raised Catholic so I am very familiar with its doctrine, which upon becoming a more educated person I reviewed to be outright false and historically disastrous for our race. You'd be cynical too if you discovered you've wasted nearly two decades of your life. But you're still convinced you haven't, and you take comfort in your delusion. I'm not capable of that. All I have is reality, and it's a shitty reality on a grand scale.
So sorry if you take offense. Atheists can't play nice lest nobody listens.
AchrisK
Weakling
^Not true. I listen when people are reasonable. Zealots are almost always offensive, even to those with the same beliefs.
Zephyrus
Tyrants and Slaves
AchrisK
Weakling
I hope I haven't offended you by my comments. Generally speaking I have no problem with you. I guess that's why I said it, because it weirds me out a little.
Zephyrus
Tyrants and Slaves
genocide roach
DOOOOOOOOOOM
- Aug 18, 2002
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