The great and all powerful religion thread!
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AchrisK
Weakling
I suppose you can call it using fear. But if you warned me of that, I would be thankful. What would be the appropriate way to warn someone they were going to be killed by a man if they leave their house?
Regarding evidence, the evidence is not for hell, but for belief in a system which includes hell as part of it's doctrine. I think many Christians would rather not believe in hell.
King Richard
Hello there
That's a bit vague don't you think? Being told to "believe in jesus or go to hell", as compared to, "hey some guy might kill you if you go outside" doesn't seem to match up well. Looking at the latter, there's no strings attached. Being told something is one thing. Being told something with the intent of trying to persuade someone into doing something is another.
zabu of nΩd
Free Insultation
- Feb 9, 2007
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Seriously, whoever's saying that there's enough evidence to believe either way regarding the existence of a god really needs to explain how making up an unfalsifiable story about something gives you enough evidence to believe it. Come on, guys.
I've seen nothing in this thread that shows how Christianity isn't on par with any other myth, such as trolls, unicorns, or mud-men. If I missed that memo, feel free to quote it for me.
I've seen nothing in this thread that shows how Christianity isn't on par with any other myth, such as trolls, unicorns, or mud-men. If I missed that memo, feel free to quote it for me.
genocide roach
DOOOOOOOOOOM
- Aug 18, 2002
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Well, I understand where you guys are coming from, because there isn't any concrete proof to support the theory of a God. However, there isn't any hard proof that God doesn't exist, just that he didn't create the Earth, and most of the stuff in the Bible didn't happen. But other questions arise like, "How was the Nothing created?" And who created the almighty Mother Nature that is responsible for evolution and all the wonderful things science specifies?
These little questions that have yet to be answered hints at the existence of God, but no-one is sure if there's a God, or what type of God we have. That's why we have religion.
For me, religion gives me something to look forward to when I die. It brings me comfort through the hard times. It's just a personal thing for me, but I try not to get too involved in it, because if I become too absorbed in it, I fear that i'll only focus on spreading the word instead of just being a good person in general. That's why i'm not a very religious person, which allows me to like what I want regardless if it's "blasphemous" or not. But, I do believe in a God, and I do believe in Jesus, and that's pretty much stoned in for me.
I don't want you guys to think i'm offended at all by your questioning of my beliefs. It has made me give some thought to my religion that I haven't done in a long time, so thanks for the challenge.
These little questions that have yet to be answered hints at the existence of God, but no-one is sure if there's a God, or what type of God we have. That's why we have religion.
For me, religion gives me something to look forward to when I die. It brings me comfort through the hard times. It's just a personal thing for me, but I try not to get too involved in it, because if I become too absorbed in it, I fear that i'll only focus on spreading the word instead of just being a good person in general. That's why i'm not a very religious person, which allows me to like what I want regardless if it's "blasphemous" or not. But, I do believe in a God, and I do believe in Jesus, and that's pretty much stoned in for me.
I don't want you guys to think i'm offended at all by your questioning of my beliefs. It has made me give some thought to my religion that I haven't done in a long time, so thanks for the challenge.
AchrisK
Weakling
People have given examples and they are always belittled or explained away. The things I say that I believe to be evidence are not taken by you (and others from your "side of the argunment") as evidence for my faith, they are just seen as things to explain away. You will always be able to explain away the evidence people give for believing in an unprovable idea. You cannot use scientific method to prove spiritual matters. Unfalsifiability is a scientific concept, and just because something in life in unfalsafiable doesn't mean that it is false. Spiritual beliefs, by their nature, require faith. So those of us who have "religious" beliefs have taken different evidence that we see, (some personal experience, some not) and feel (yes, feel. not necessarily emotional) and we have made a decision. These decisions require faith.
Nobody can or will ever prove anything spiritual to anyone else. That's not the way these things work. You keep asking for evidence, but none can be given to you if your mind is made up.
And these beliefs are not made up...at least not by me. In my case they are thousands of years old. Trolls, unicorns and mudmen are physical beings that may or may not exist/have existed. But the overwhelming general consensus is that they are mythical. You have no such consesnus about Christianity.
This is not an attempt to prove anything to you, except that it is futile for anyone to try to give you proof of God. But if you are really interested, why don't you try reading books about the evidence of the resurrection or biblical historical and geographical accuracy. Don't just read books that refute it. Have you read any books that refute the refutation of biblical accuracy? If you really want to know, you need to seek. Personally I have an ever-growing collection of things I need to read on these topics for my own information in regards to questioning and/or developing my faith.
Hatebreeder
Pizzicato Heartstrings
Or if you warned someone not to drive a car with faulty steering because it might kill them? No. I have always hated these analogies (even as a Christian) because the two situations have nothing in common. One is based on a factual observation (there is a man outside with a gun looking threatening and the car has, in the past, been proven unreliable) and the other is based on reading an age-old text that has been perverted by thousands of translations.
You wanna know something interesting? Most ancient cultures believed that the gods of their neighboring tribes also existed, but they were just for a differing purpose. They all had their own separate beliefs, but they accepted the reality of the existence of multiple gods. What happened? The Hebrews. They were among the first to start denying this long-held tradition of tolerance.
And the thing about trolls and mudmen and stuff? The Bible may not have many of these thing, but those mythical creatures you mentioned are more characteristic of European mythologies and thus aren't really relevant here.
zoidberg
Mallcore Kid
AchrisK
Weakling
But that doesn't discount the fact that people sincerely believe it. I only said something about the whole issue in an attempt to explain that many (but not all) of the people who may include the idea of hell in a discussion with you (generic) are doing it out of concern, rather than control. That's all. I am not claiming that anyone is correct or incorrect in their beliefs.
Thoth-Amon
Hypochondriac
- Apr 4, 2006
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There are plenty of made-up myths in the bible. Whether one chooses to believe that Christianity is still true on a spiritual level despite the myths in the bible is up to you.
I'm not criticizing Christianity for having allegories or myths in the bible. The message of Christianity could still be true and the authors simply chose to express their religious truths through means of stories. However I think any reasonable person should be able to spot the fictional stories in the bible.
skeptik
Member
- Feb 7, 2003
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The "evidence" that you and everybody else have presented is not even credible, that's why. The point is that there IS no evidence, and that is why we find it irrational to believe as you do with this abundant lack of evidence. What you claim to be evidence tends to be trivial, irrelevant, a coincidence, or even less, and that's why your 'evidence' is "explained away."
None can be given to any rational person who has never heard of religion or gods or anything else. If you take a blank slate and present to him your 'evidence,' even without any argument from the other side, you would still not convince him, because your 'evidence' is insubstantial and proves nothing.
Consensus doesn't make something true. Most people seem to believe that men think of sex at least every 3 minutes (others believe as frequent as 7 seconds), a myth perpetuated by a misunderstanding of study findings, but just because people believe this doesn't make it true.
There is evidence proving that a man rose from the dead? There is evidence that a man turned water into wine? There is evidence that a man walked on water? There is no such thing as miracles, and there has and never will be any genuine evidence proving a miracle to be true.
http://academics.vmi.edu/psy_dr/Hume on miracles.htm
Has anyone been watching the CNN series God's Warriors? I've seen 2 of the episodes, it's a very interesting and insightful look into some of the more extreme elements of religion worldwide.
Evil?
omghaxlol!1
Carcassian
Utopian Blaster
AchrisK
Weakling
I didn't say they weren't made up (and I am not saying they are). I was just saying I didn't make them up.
AchrisK
Weakling
There is no evidence that can be given to someone who has made up their mind. You don't have to present the untouched man anything, he automatically believes.
Consensus was only used to illustrate the inequity of your comparison.
If you want to know, why don't you read up on it? Not just things written by other people who already have their minds made up against them. Read things written by people who believe them. But if you don't really care that much, then no need to keep asking me.
Thoth-Amon
Hypochondriac
- Apr 4, 2006
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Nec is saying that if you presented the "evidence" for Christianity to a rationally minded person who had never heard of it or experienced it before he would find it unconvincing.
skeptik
Member
- Feb 7, 2003
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The man who has no idea of a god or a lack of a god already has a belief one way or another?
It wasn't my comparison, but regardless, consensus is a moot point to begin with.
Actually I cited cases that I have read up on, though mostly through internet research and probably a few years ago at this point. I don't feel the need to continually read the same thing over and over again, namely that there is no evidence to suggest that Biblical tales regarding the many amazing feats of a man named Jesus have ever occurred. There simply is no evidence that can prove that a miracle has occurred. But if you ever do stumble upon something that is actually accepted by a secular organization as evidence pointing to the occurrence of a miraculous event, I would be more than happy to take a look at it. I'm not one to refute cold hard facts.
zoidberg
Mallcore Kid
what about the fact that there are, to this day, chairs in jerusalem. you dont think that jesus made them, due to carpetry skills do you?
