Matt
Active Member
Errr, that practice was used mainly in the dark/middle ages. I doubt many people today are 'frightened' into joining the church.
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Errr, that practice was used mainly in the dark/middle ages. I doubt many people today are 'frightened' into joining the church.
Hatebreeder
Pizzicato Heartstrings
Mathiäs;6457390 said:
It may not be as widespread, but it still exists. Although today, people join the church more as a way to rationalize their immoralities rather than to prevent going to hell.
Matt
Active Member
Do you know this from personal experience or something?
Also, I have never seen that technique used in my lifetime, even in the most conservative of places.
Hatebreeder
Pizzicato Heartstrings
Mathiäs;6457417 said:
Not personally, but I go to a Christian school and am able to observe all the ways different churches work.
The problem with the church today is that the ways they use to attract new members to their congregations are very profoundly psychological and get people to convince themselves that they absolutely need the church. It may seem that religion is less invasive than in the past, but it is just as dangerous, if not more so, to the general population of "guilty" people.
A8
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- Jul 29, 2007
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today i witnessed my tiny 4 year old cousin attempt to say grace before eating and also praying with my grandmother before bed and what my g-ma taught her to say before she went to bed disturbed me the most
"Jesus, I'm praying for my family and friends, but mostly for those who havent found your guidance. Please help to show them truth and your everlasting love"
thats when i knew i had already lost her to blind faith just like the rest of my family
the single word that bothered me: truth
"Jesus, I'm praying for my family and friends, but mostly for those who havent found your guidance. Please help to show them truth and your everlasting love"
thats when i knew i had already lost her to blind faith just like the rest of my family
the single word that bothered me: truth
Take your head out of the sand. The church is not all love, happiness and friendship. Those signs show it. Preaching hell shows it. Ask bluewizard.Mathiäs;6457390 said:
One sign I saw said "Jesus said 'I will come again'. Are you ready?" Is that not fear mongering? And don't say "that's an isolated incident" because it's not.
I don't like the way the Church is going myself. Ever since the Medieval times, the Church has been using God as a way to obtain control. That's not right, (in my opinion) God's not the angry bag of douche who will smite you if you don't do what he says that some churches portray (there are good ones, don't get me wrong). They feel that using fear will get a person to believe them. Absolutely not, God is not meant to be used as a tool for power. You should be allowed to believe in what religion you want to believe.
I'm proud to be a Protestant Christian, but I also know when I smell bullshit. I've seen good priests, and good churches, just don't attend the ones with the stench of greed wafting from their bricks.
I'm proud to be a Protestant Christian, but I also know when I smell bullshit. I've seen good priests, and good churches, just don't attend the ones with the stench of greed wafting from their bricks.
Let me ask you something. Instead of saying why other churches are wrong, what makes your theology right?
It's not a matter of right or wrong. It's just a point of view, it's just how I feel. I suppose it has to do with how I was raised. I guess what i'm trying to say is that I'd much rather chill with an athiest who's level headed than a crazed Christian with absolutely dogmatic beliefs, or vice versa.
I suppose I came off a bit pretentious, my apologies.
I suppose I came off a bit pretentious, my apologies.
AchrisK
Weakling
There are churches who are not after your money. There are churches who are not interested in just gaining members.
Regarding the use of Hell to scare people, well I don't doubt that tactic is used. But you have to know that everyone who mentions heaven or hell is not necessarily trying to scare people into church. Do you not realize that most of the people who talk about that stuff believe it. The motivation for many Christians is not to win some numbers war or get more money for their church. It is out of a genuine concern for people. You may laugh at what they believe, but many of them are going out on a limb doing something that doesn't come naturally and is uncomfortable out of love and care for those who they are talking to. Yes, people can get frustrated and out of that frustration can resort to saying things that come off as anything but loving. I know there are "Christians" who are the opposite of this, but you can't hold them each responsible for each other's behavior. I believe that even Blue Jay does care about you guys. I mean, he's young and hasn't been a Christian long, so you can't expect to get into deep debates with him. Yeah, he gets frustrated and says stuff. But you know some of you guys have a way of really brutally offending Christians, and what reaction can you expect from someone who loves this person you are so horribly maligning?
Regarding the use of Hell to scare people, well I don't doubt that tactic is used. But you have to know that everyone who mentions heaven or hell is not necessarily trying to scare people into church. Do you not realize that most of the people who talk about that stuff believe it. The motivation for many Christians is not to win some numbers war or get more money for their church. It is out of a genuine concern for people. You may laugh at what they believe, but many of them are going out on a limb doing something that doesn't come naturally and is uncomfortable out of love and care for those who they are talking to. Yes, people can get frustrated and out of that frustration can resort to saying things that come off as anything but loving. I know there are "Christians" who are the opposite of this, but you can't hold them each responsible for each other's behavior. I believe that even Blue Jay does care about you guys. I mean, he's young and hasn't been a Christian long, so you can't expect to get into deep debates with him. Yeah, he gets frustrated and says stuff. But you know some of you guys have a way of really brutally offending Christians, and what reaction can you expect from someone who loves this person you are so horribly maligning?
As far as offending Christians go, it does bother me somewhat, but I try not to let it get to me. You have to get used to these things because people are gonna do this shit to ya just to get you pissed. But I do see where you're coming from, Chris.
As far as Blue Jay goes, perhaps there is some benign motive, but he acts way too controlling and he comes off as a smug person. I just don't like that. God gave man free will, that means they have the right to choose what they choose. Of course I may not agree with it, but I won't stop them (unless it's life threatening, or something greatly malicious, like taking the lives of others, you have to draw a line there). In any case, I understand some people believe in Heaven and Hell, I certainly do. I guess that's what drives me to be a good person, not just to receive the appreciation of others, but also in the hope I may see my loved ones in Heaven one day.
As far as Blue Jay goes, perhaps there is some benign motive, but he acts way too controlling and he comes off as a smug person. I just don't like that. God gave man free will, that means they have the right to choose what they choose. Of course I may not agree with it, but I won't stop them (unless it's life threatening, or something greatly malicious, like taking the lives of others, you have to draw a line there). In any case, I understand some people believe in Heaven and Hell, I certainly do. I guess that's what drives me to be a good person, not just to receive the appreciation of others, but also in the hope I may see my loved ones in Heaven one day.
Not at all pretentious. I am curious to know how you rationalize your feelings with your thought.
Maligning someone's beliefs != maligning them. I don't think I have ever insulted you or any other Christian who has come in here and decided to talk intelligently. You haven't given me reason to. If you tell me Atheism is wrong and foolish, I would like to know why you think that, but I wouldn't be personally offended, and I think the Christians here need to have the same attitude.
Blue Jay has been an idiot from day one, and his religion has nothing to do with it.
As for your other points, whether or not someone truly believes it is irrelevant. Their actions are their actions no matter the motives. If they use fear as to bring people so they can be saved, it is no better than bring people in so they can pay. Either way people are being tricked to believe something through manipulation of emotions.
As passionate as I did sound in my previous posts, it's just a matter of being comfortable with your own beliefs. I was raised the way I was raised, I was taught certain values at churches that I was taught in. I don't believe in judging others based on their life choices (unless they did something completely terrible in the past, such as rape, murder, or if he was a child predator).
For example, I understand that judging from your posts in this thread, you're an Athiest. You don't believe in a God or Gods. I disagree, because I believe in aGod, i'm part of a monotheistic religion. However, I won't think of you any differently for it, just respect the fact I believe differently and i'll respect yours. Of course, if you were an asshole, i'd think differently of you for being an asshole, regardless of you being Jewish, Christian, Hindu or whatever.
Another example is this friend I have. She happens to smoke Pot, as well as do various drugs. Do I share her same passion? Of course not, I want to steer clear from that stuff. However, she's incredibly nice to me, so I acknowledge her as my friend, and not a druggie.
I just try to be open minded about a lot of stuff, the only exception is being music. I'm a little picky when it comes to music.
That's fine. What I am asking is if you have thought about your beliefs, or if you have just gotten to a comfort level and left them alone.
There are moments where I have my questions and i'm sure I will in the future, everyone has their moments, but I remember certain events that strengthened my love for my religion, as well as the beliefs set by my father. It is then that I rebound and continue on with my life. Part of being in a religion requires faith, unless any strong event or revelation occurs within me to change my mind, I don't imagine myself converting to another religion anytime soon.
I think there's enough evidence to believe in both sides of the equation.
You either believe in it or you don't.
You either believe in it or you don't.
AchrisK
Weakling
But if someone believes in hell and wants to warn people from it, they don't mean to use fear. They just mean to help people. How do you help people if you don't tell them why you think they need help? Now I don't think that hell is the best place to start when telling a person about Christianity, and I know that it is used a a scare tactic and I don't agree with doing that, and I certainly wouldn't do it.
My comments about maligning were not directed at you, and probably the majority of people here don't do it. But there are some posters whose only contribution to any religios discussion is posting offensive (to Christians) lyrics or saying incredibly tasteless and crude things about Jesus. Those are the things I was referring to. You just can't expect it not to bother some people. It bothers me, but I tend to not let it get to me, or I don't read it, or I realize that it's just a shock tactic. Blue Jay lets it get to him and reacts. Then people attack him or make fun of him. Yeah, he's an easy target and irrational and sets himself up and says dumb things, but I just feel a little bad in those instances where he is reacting to things so offensive to his faith.
AchrisK
Weakling
